Is it ok to ask about the ramping up of vaccine side effects stories?

[SparklingJam]

I’m generally pro vaccines, but I’m starting to question the effects of the covid jab, and wonder if it’s possible to have a discussion about it. Apologies if this has been done to death, or isn’t an accepted topic.

I’ve been seeing more information about deaths of young men, how the vaccine isn’t very effective against covid, and hearing all about dreadful side effects, to the point where some people won’t have the jab because they “know” they’ll die.

I can fully accept that there are side effects, but the talk of increased deaths (apparently 1300 excess deaths per week, coupled with videos of supposed undertakers saying they are 50-100% busier now) is making me question things and worry.

Having said that, in my extended circle of friends, family and colleagues, I know many people who are mostly vaccinated, and apart from a day or 5 of feeling fluey they all have no side effects and haven’t died.
At the same time through the same extended group, I know a couple who have died of covid and several who still have long covid which has disabled them to varying degrees.

It would be logical to think that the excess deaths are a catch up to lock down and lack of hospital treatment, plus the current issues many have with seeing a gp or calling an ambulance, but I am assured by certain people that the excess deaths are solely due to the vaccine.

https://www.pfizer.com/people/leadership/boardoffdirectors/jamessmith

I wish mumsnet would just let us discuss these situations that effect us all rather than censoring so much

@Newusernameaug

Probably because the site you link is renowned for lots of far right bullshit. I’m personally glad that Mumsnet is censoring harmful crap.

Strangely enough Mumsnet doesn’t support extremism and radicalisation. I find it really interesting how those who spread misinformation tend to have other extreme views - on immigration, Putin etc etc.

They are so intent on believing they have some kind of superior knowledge (from watching dodgy vids on an extremist hosting platform), that this seems to filter into everything…

We both had the vaccine this morning, I've a splitting headache, OH a fever. It's packing a punch we've not noticed before

@justasking111
sorry to hear you aren't feeling well. the VAST majority of people's aches and pains disappear pretty quickly. try not to let worry set in. i'm sure you made your decision under the guidance of trusted medical professionals, so, now that you've had the booster (i assume) i think the most beneficial outlook is to think positively and trust your body. i had awful fevers and headaches after some vaccines i took years ago to travel to africa, but nothing more than that. i have decided not to take the covid vaccines, but ALL of my adult family members have, and everyone seems fine. i know this might not be helpful and is only anecdotal, but i hope you are not too worried. wishing you all the best.

Odysse is a platform reknowned for hateful and racist content (along with all the usual disinformation).

If MN don't want to advertise such sites then good for them. I don't want my internet traffic to generate profits for such sites, and presumably neither do they.

Very happy to discuss vaccinations, fully supportive of forums to now be at the point where they delete outright fake claims that cause harm. It isn't "censorship to have your post deleted - MN is a private company.

Why do you keep linking this on multiple threads @peppathe3rd ?

If you're inferring some kind of issue about someone who works within Pfizer (always Pfizer, never any other drug companies...) surely would make sense to post explicity?

It's to discredit the Reuters fact-checking articles that debunk covid vaccine misinformation and conspiracy theories. A board member at Pfizer has a connection to a charity supported by Pfizer's president, so Reuters has lost all journalist integrity, and everything they publish about covid is rubbish. I guess Moderna, AZ, Novavax, etc., are all in on the game too.

That's the theory, I think.

Sorry, should be "A board member at Pfizer president has a connection to a charity supported by Reuters' president".

It's to discredit the Reuters fact-checking articles that debunk covid vaccine misinformation and conspiracy theories.

Which is ridiculous, because they don't just make blanket statements, they link the original material where the claim came from so people don't have to take their word for it.

PPs act as if anyone reading a fact check article is just blindly following info, but you can literally read where the claim came, and the context surrounding it, and make your own decision.

Here's a non-Reuters fact check of the claim.

Pfizer’s CEO has had Covid-19 vaccine

What was claimed

Pfizer’s CEO Albert Bourla hasn’t been vaccinated against Covid-19 because he is “healthy” and doesn’t want to “cut the line”.

Our verdict

Mr Bourla said this in December 2020. He has since publicly shared pictures of him being vaccinated against Covid-19.

A video reel shared to Instagram on 23 January claims that the CEO of Pfizer, Albert Bourla, has not had a Covid-19 vaccine because he doesn’t want to “cut the line”.

A watermark on the video indicates it was taken from TikTok, but the original account which posted the video now appears to have been deleted or suspended. However, Full Fact found other versions of the clip with thousands of likes still live on the social media site.

There is no mention in the Instagrampost of the fact that Mr Bourla’s interview with CNBC, shown in the clip, actually took place more than a year ago on 14 December 2020. In fact, many people commenting on it seem to think that the clip is much more recent.

As we have written before Mr Bourla publicly shared on 10 March 2021 that he had received two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. It was reported in October 2021 that he had also received a booster dose of the vaccine.

The Instagram video shows Mr Bourla being asked when he plans to have his Covid-19 vaccination, to which he replies: “The sooner I can I will. The only sensitivity here...is that I don’t want to have an example that I am cutting the line.

“I am 59-years-old, I am in good health, I’m not working in the frontline so my type is not recommended to get vaccination [sic].”

The video cuts just before Mr Bourla says: “My type is not recommended to get vaccination now”. The removal of this word changes the meaning of the sentence, from people in Mr Bourla’s situation being recommended for vaccination at all, to people in a similar position just not being prioritised for the vaccine at the time he spoke.

The vaccination rollout in the US (where Mr Bourla lives) began on 14 December 2020, the same day the interview took place. As in the UK, healthcare workers and the most elderly and vulnerable people were prioritised for vaccination ahead of other population groups.

@justasking111
hi again. hope you are feeling better. xoxo

@MissConductUS

Sorry, should be "A board member at Pfizer president has a connection to a charity supported by Reuters' president".

what???

I'll rephrase. A Pfizer board member has a connection to a charity supported by Reuters's president.

And while you're here, perhaps you can explain why you posted that link with no context?

@MissConductUS
you're "rephrasing" is not factually correct. i was replying to someone else who had a link blocked or taken down, and i was explaining to that person that the same thing had happened to me when i linked info about james smith

to set the record straight...

these are his credentials, not what you "rephrased" @MissConductUS



hopefully this won't be as blurry...

I don't understand why this is being posted as some kind of great reveal.

Pfizer are not in control of the narrative of how well their vaccine works - it's no longer in trial stages where they hold all the data.

Billions of doses have been given since approval. Data from this has been analysed hundreds of times over by all sorts of independent research groups and bodies.

It is clear from this data (not from reports from Pfzier or Reuters or whoever else you are supsicious of) that innoculation with their vaccine was incredibly successful at reducing harms of coronavirus infection, and that whilst no vaccine is side effect free, it was safer to be vaccinated than not be vaccinated.

I'll ask again though - why this weird focus on Pfizer? Several other drug companies developed vaccines which have been used through the pandemic.

@hangryyhippo
i never claimed it was a "great reveal." i wouldn't say i have a strange fixation on pfizer, as you put it. i have looked into that company the most, as it is the one most of my family and best friends took. hope that answers your question.

@hangryyhippo

Again it’s someone’s idea that their own ‘special research’ somehow trumps the global consensus of medical thought on Covid.

While I agree with questioning, it has to be backed up by robust evidence - not some dodgy clip on a far right hosting platform - or from a ‘think tank’ that includes Del Bigtree as one of it’s leaders.

To focus on one small scale study, the views of a think tank with an agenda - or anecdotal evidence is ridiculous.

If we chose controversial science over consensus science consistently in medicine - are more or less people likely to have their health compromised??

As far as I can see vaccine scepticism is generally down to 1) psychological reactance (those who react against rules that they feel threaten their freedom) - which is often then linked to 2) an individualistic or hierarchical world view.

@Samarie123

That’s just such bollocks. I’m going to start reporting posts I think - what gives you the right to spout utter rubbish and potentially mislead others into making decisions that are not in the best interests of their health. It’s harmful nonsense.