Page 7 | Still no air filters in schools?

wondersun · 2022-08-25T23:03:13+00:00

Is anyone else really hacked off that there are still no air filters in schools?? The kids don’t spread it / don’t get sick from covid nonsense narrative has been replaced with cases are low due to school holidays (so much nicer when covid knew to wait at the school gates!) but the government are still refusing to do something so simple which could make schools safer. Its like they don’t want to admit it’s worth avoiding repeat covid infections so therefore have to do nothing to stop/slow the thread and risk inevitable questions. Even if it just slows it - every covid infection is a roll of long covid etc risks - why do they seem so keen to spread it round asap.

remiss · 27/08/2022 20:26

All driven by opinion based ‘science’ which is just lobbying power denying anything that is sensible regarding Covid.

It's all a bit boy who cried wolf now though. Anyone paying attention to the data (particular the stuff being published by scot gov) could see that testing, masks and vaccines made virtually zero difference for omicron. The first two when compared with England and the latter when looking at cases / hosp / deaths per 100k standardised for age.

I'm sure there is some very sciency reason for the fact none of it makes a lick of sense to laymen, but at the same time, most people are laymen. When nobody knows any children getting sick and nobody knows anyone dying and nobody can see any difference in the outcomes between the unvaxed / double jagged / triple boosted, people start to wonder why we're spending millions on measures which don't seem to make any difference to anyone except the people who own the companies and win the contracts.

The whole "lobbying power" thing doesn't make much logical sense when you consider almost every measure we've had has benefited Big Business and harmed the small ones. Millions spent on school cleaning covid contracts alone, and do you think they went to local, self-employed sole traders who'd been unable to work for the last two years and found themselves reliant on benefits, for whom a fat council contract would have completely turned their situation around? Of course not. This is just one example of hundreds.

BeenToldComputerSaysNo · 27/08/2022 20:27

LockAqua · 27/08/2022 19:47

@BeenToldComputerSaysNo

I’m referring to those who would be constantly testing their DC even with no symptoms and not ill and looking to keep them off school in the event of a positive test.

Thanks for clarifying. Probably best not to describe that as lockdown fanatic or hypochondriac then as they are different things.

noblegiraffe · 27/08/2022 20:42

When nobody knows any children getting sick and nobody knows anyone dying and nobody can see any difference in the outcomes between the unvaxed / double jagged / triple boosted

Oh dear.

MajorCarolDanvers · 27/08/2022 20:44

noblegiraffe · 27/08/2022 19:16

Some people think covid is over and it's not 🤷‍♀️

It's never going to over.

But we are in a different phase now.

noblegiraffe · 27/08/2022 20:46

The fingers in ears phase?

remiss · 27/08/2022 21:52

noblegiraffe · 27/08/2022 20:42

When nobody knows any children getting sick and nobody knows anyone dying and nobody can see any difference in the outcomes between the unvaxed / double jagged / triple boosted

Oh dear.

A quick glance at the figures shows 7 people in 100,000 are hospitalised with covid, and 0.25 per 100,000 going to icu. Perhaps I shouldn't have said "nobody". Barely anyone would have been more accurate. When you consider most of those people will be elderly, even less people will know a child getting seriously sick.

noblegiraffe · 27/08/2022 22:09

You remember those vaccines that you said didn't appear to be having any impact?

Original poster

wondersun · 27/08/2022 22:19

Maximo2 · 27/08/2022 11:35

It doesn’t matter whether testing is happening or not - children and adults will be ill. Other adults and children will catch it. There will be lots of absences. These are facts.

I swear it’s like living in an alternate universe sometimes.

It really is. Don’t know what it will take for people to wake up and realise slowing down infections and preventing is worth it.

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Original poster

wondersun · 27/08/2022 22:20

JayKayMum · 27/08/2022 11:36

There is a benefit to the immune system when a child gets a disease and acquires lasting immunity that will protect them in old age when their immune system is weaker. But there is absolutely zero benefits in getting a disease like Covid which actually weakens the immune system and damages other systems in the body.

As far as the immune system goes. We know that anyone can get long Covid, regardless of age and health profile, and the chances of getting long Covid is compounded with each reinfection, like each spin on the barrel playing Russian Roulette. Long Covid is the chronic activation of the immune system, which leads to autoimmunity.

This British Medical Journal study from 2022 discusses the heart problems that Covid causes: “Those who had had covid-19 had a 72% increased risk of heart failure, 63% increased risk of heart attack, and 52% increased risk of stroke compared with controls.

The researchers wrote that the increased risks “were evident regardless of age, race, sex, and other cardiovascular risk factors, including obesity, hypertension, diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and hyperlipidemia; they were also evident in people without any cardiovascular disease before exposure to Covid-19, providing evidence that these risks might manifest even in people at low risk of cardiovascular disease.”

Ignoring the risk for our children's future health is not getting back to normal. It is possible to mitigate these risks and support all of our children's needs, but we can't do this if we pretend the risks do not exist for them and our families.

This.

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wondersun · 27/08/2022 22:23

BeenToldComputerSaysNo · 27/08/2022 11:57

There was lots of 'cover' in our school - TAs covering classes, supply teachers, even medical officer - one TA lost most of the term and don't know if she's back yet. Breakfast club also had to be cancelled for the term. It's a shit normal. Lots of missed learning, with schools doing what they can against the odds. It seems beyond insane to me that those who shout phrases like 'lockdown lovers' the loudest seem the most against any measures that may help keep schools open in a more sustainable way. Surely less covid is better for education, economy, health?

Exactly. There are some dark corners of society pushing for infections, initially they perhaps believed that herd immunity would kick in. Don’t know what their excuse is now it’s clear that there’s no lasting immunity, just a risk of long covid every roll of the dice.

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wondersun · 27/08/2022 22:26

Maximo2 · 27/08/2022 12:03

Baffled as to why lockdown has even been brought up and have duly noted who has done so. We’re talking air filters, people. Keep up!

Yes, why does it have to become a dramatic lockdown scenario. Lockdowns could perhaps even have been avoided in 2020 if the government listened to the scientists, they certainly could have been shorter.

Mitigations like air filters wouldn’t even cause disruption.

I can’t see why anyone would argue unless they’re pro infection

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wondersun · 27/08/2022 22:38

remiss · 27/08/2022 15:45

Yep. It’s mind boggling. I think people just don’t want to accept that improvements need to be made and that the country is currently - massively - failing children, teachers, families and inevitably all of society.

Do you want to know what I find mind boggling? That some people's lives are so cosy / schools are so great they believe spending money on fucking air filters should be anywhere near the top of the list of priorities.

Like jesus christ my school is full of children who don't have a second pair of shoes for P.E. and rely on a 30 minute soft start every morning just to make sure they're all in on time and are given breakfast. Food banks, uniform banks, winter coat banks, fruit banks, adult eduction and mental health provision all being managed via the school. There's at least two classes at full capacity in every year, many years have three, all of them with numerous children who don't speak English and that's without every class being assigned an additional 2 - 4 Ukrainians (who have just fled a war stricken country, left their families behind and don't speak a lick of English, no additional support needed there at all, right?!). They're teaching them outside, sending P7s to the high school and have covered the playground in portacabins trying to accommodate them. Do you want me to touch on the SEN and the amount of children who came back with textbook adhd symptoms because they'd just been forced to spend the best part of a year trapped in a high-rise flat in front of a device while the play-parks were chained up? The behavioural issues from that alone are enough to make ME want to start throwing chairs around. Three year wait on a dyslexia assessment for a child who literally cannot write the alphabet at 11 years old, with zero funding for resources like a laptop until after the assessment.

All of that and people are STILL banging on about air filters and masks and what if little Timmy misses a week of school twice a year? How the other half live indeed.

You seem to think people have attitudes like mine because we're thick or selfish or anti-vax or "refuse to see it" or "just don't want to accept it". Have you ever stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, people have bigger fucking problems than a virus with a 0.00004% chance of killing their perfectly healthy child?

Poorer communities are getting harder hit by covid. And given the set up re long covid are going to be less able to get help (people are paying for treatment abroad).

Listing other issues won’t make this big issue go away.

Your downplaying “facts” re risks to kids highlight your lack of research into the impacts of covid on kids.

Looking up long covid kids would be a good start.

The fact our useless government have caused a cost of living crisis with worsening poverty - while they cream off income from second jobs (and the list goes on) does not mean that we shouldn’t be asking for and expecting what other countries are giving their children - mitigated classrooms.

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wondersun · 27/08/2022 22:43

LockAqua · 27/08/2022 18:13

This thread is a good reminder that there are groups out there such as independent sage and the teaching unions for whom covid is all that matters and want to take us backwards by implementing restrictions.

These people have caused enormous harm as it is and cannot be allowed to have any further influence. They need to be roundly dismissed this winter when they start demanding lockdowns again.

Hilarious. You must be a bot typing away in a room somewhere surely.

Dont what lockdowns. Don’t want restrictions.

Think kids deserve air filters to reduce the number of infections and lower the viral load.

Eton and Nadhim Zahawi’s old school has them, why not all kids??

Covid is a long term health gamble that we should be protecting kids and teachers against.

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wondersun · 27/08/2022 22:50

LockAqua · 27/08/2022 18:59

@noblegiraffe

The unions opposed schools reopening in June 2020. They called for schools to be closed in September 2020. They called for schools to be closed in October 2020. They called for schools to be closed in December 2020.

They called for schools to be closed in January 2021. They were opposed to schools reopening in March 2021. They called to schools to be closed in December 2021.

I suspect I’ve missed some from they list. The idea that teaching unions were against closing schools is bollocks.

Your responses are so odd and inciteful. This is about making classrooms safer for our children.

There is so much money for what the government wants to spend money on and their pockets seem to be nicely lined from their time in office.

I am not going to go through your timeline, I laughed to hard at the first date to continue. The reason schools didn’t open in June 2020 is because Williamson’s guidance was impossible - every desk had to have a 2 metre radius around it. That’s how out of touch they are.

Its been calamity after calamity. They did not call to close them in Sept 2020.

I don’t know what your agenda is but I’m going to stop engaging as it’s certainly not pro children.

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goldfishinabag · 28/08/2022 01:55

You have to wonder if there are certain interests that would find the public demanding cleaner air (in the same way we expect clean water) a really terrible prospect, because of the implied costs and liabilities (of governments and big business in particular). It is really hard to understand otherwise why some people find the idea so unacceptable.

Telling everyone that the only people who care about cleaner air in schools are 'lockdown fanatics' is perhaps just an attempt to get ordinary people to ignore the idea, in case we all start getting the dangerous idea we might actually have a right to work, be educated and so on in places with clean air (like we expect clean water).

LondonQueen · 28/08/2022 02:35

I'm a teacher, I don't feel at risk of covid day to day, and doubt an air filter would make any difference. I just open the windows, much more effective and keeps my fucking boiling classroom cool.

Hobele · 28/08/2022 03:30

Why would you not just open the windows? Heck more environmental.

Endlesslypatient82 · 28/08/2022 06:34

wondersun · 27/08/2022 22:50

Your responses are so odd and inciteful. This is about making classrooms safer for our children.

There is so much money for what the government wants to spend money on and their pockets seem to be nicely lined from their time in office.

I am not going to go through your timeline, I laughed to hard at the first date to continue. The reason schools didn’t open in June 2020 is because Williamson’s guidance was impossible - every desk had to have a 2 metre radius around it. That’s how out of touch they are.

Its been calamity after calamity. They did not call to close them in Sept 2020.

I don’t know what your agenda is but I’m going to stop engaging as it’s certainly not pro children.

Show quote history

This summer my children have shared hot tubs with other children, kissed other children, camped with other children, been on very long car journeys with other children…. I could go on and on.

and so many other children have experienced the same (well, I hope so. It’s been a fun summer holiday for us!). And no one was getting het up about air filters then.

as soon as “normal” life resumes ie school and work, it seems to me that people start to get agitated about covid again.

to me it seems like a tactic to avoid the resumption of “normal” life for whatever reason

noblegiraffe · 28/08/2022 07:22

Hobele · 28/08/2022 03:30

Why would you not just open the windows? Heck more environmental.

Because kids don't learn very effectively when the classroom is fucking freezing and it is not very environmental to allow what little heating schools will have on this winter go straight out of the window.

Seems like people have forgotten how grim it was in classrooms last winter. Shame people don't want better for their kids.

noblegiraffe · 28/08/2022 07:26

to me it seems like a tactic to avoid the resumption of “normal” life for whatever reason

How would cleaner air in a classroom be a hindrance to the resumption of "normal" life?

Your post about how your kids have been spending the summer ignores the obvious fact that covid rates in kids tend to drop dramatically in the holidays. Covid spreads in schools and this is causing much lower school attendance than in the years pre-covid. If you want a return to normal life where school attendance is much higher, then cleaner air in classrooms should be a consideration.

Original poster

wondersun · 28/08/2022 07:55

These false narratives just keep popping up again and again.

Air filters would keep schools open (but let go of the lockdowns now, its very very unlikely that covid will close the schools again).

My post is about reducing illness and protecting education, children, teachers and ultimately their families and wider communities.

Everyone knows some schools have windows that barely open. That opening windows - unless you're really lucky with the layout of your school - is rarely enough. And that's before we acknowledge we are talking about Autumn / Winter.

Everyone knows that covid numbers are the lowest they've been for months and months because of the school summer holidays.

We are now putting groups of 30 together again daily - more with assemblies. Covid is not over, its madness that air filters are not in place.

If you don't agree then you must be pro 2-3 covid infections / year for your child (or everyone else's child).

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wondersun · 28/08/2022 08:02

goldfishinabag · 28/08/2022 01:55

You have to wonder if there are certain interests that would find the public demanding cleaner air (in the same way we expect clean water) a really terrible prospect, because of the implied costs and liabilities (of governments and big business in particular). It is really hard to understand otherwise why some people find the idea so unacceptable.

Telling everyone that the only people who care about cleaner air in schools are 'lockdown fanatics' is perhaps just an attempt to get ordinary people to ignore the idea, in case we all start getting the dangerous idea we might actually have a right to work, be educated and so on in places with clean air (like we expect clean water).

YES!!!! THIS!!!!!

There are definitely dark forces involved here - certainly in our right wing press; I expect all over social media.

It is not selfish to expect clean air for all children. It is a basic right.

It is selfish to be exploiting tax loopholes with offshore accounts, taking incomes from second jobs, watching your wealth grow due to a pandemic....

The gab between the rich and poor in the UK has never been more stark and this health crisis is going to make it even worse. I keep saying it but Eton and Nadhim Zahawi's old school - and I am sure most fee paying schools - have air filters. This is because they work.

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GiveMeNovocain · 28/08/2022 08:16

Dark forces against clean air? Just open a fecking window.

Hobele · 28/08/2022 08:25

@noblegiraffe Every school
I have been to was stinky and hot, opening a window will only have good effects, you don't have to freeze the room.

noblegiraffe · 28/08/2022 08:37

Must have imagined all those posts last winter about kids freezing in classrooms and all the kids having to wear coats, hats and gloves in my classrooms.

I can imagine there will be a lot of pressure this winter to not open windows given the cost of what little heating there will be.

Anyway, it really is extraordinary the things people will argue against rather than be in favour of spending money on schools.

Expecting clean air to be declared 'woke' any minute.