Page 4 | For those that are NOT vaxxed - would you get vaxxed only for travel?

WoodlandWalks123 · 2022-04-26T05:29:48+00:00

I chose not to get vaccinated (I am in low risk category and already had covid). I don’t want to get into the pros and cons of that choice. Now, DP booked me and DM on a luxury cruise as a surprise present - which would be so lovely and DM is really looking forward to it - it’s a bit of a once in a lifetime sort of thing to be able to go on this / spend time with her and I’ve got it in my mind that life is short and unsure when we would go again. When he booked, the rules were that from April all vaccination rules would end. Now they have changed their terms and require double vaxx. They will refund money if we cancel due to this change so there is a get out. My DM is vaxxed but obviously I am not. I am genuinely nervous about getting vaccinated when it’s just so new (in relative vaccine terms) and we don’t know long term effects, and the mRNA technology is also unknown. I am not a die hard anti-vaxxer or conspiracy theorist. I feel that I would only be doing it for this cruise - general air travel / country requirements seem to be opening up and not requiring vaccines increasingly so I don’t think I would need it to go abroad in the fullness of time. *If you have chosen not to be vaccinated, would you get vaccinated to go on a once in a lifetime (but only 4 day) cruise? Or would you get a refund? If you would get vaccinated, which of the vaccines do you think is most benign? *

ginghamstarfish · 26/04/2022 10:36

Seems hypocritical - you didn't want it before for whatever reasons you believe - despite the overwhelming proof that it has been beneficial - and didn't mind putting yourself and others at risk - but now you want something you can't have without being vaccinated it's suddenly ok to have it?

ginghamstarfish · 26/04/2022 10:36

Seems hypocritical - you didn't want it before for whatever reasons you believe - despite the overwhelming proof that it has been beneficial - and didn't mind putting yourself and others at risk - but now you want something you can't have without being vaccinated it's suddenly ok to have it?

hepatocyte · 26/04/2022 10:39

I don't want my child to grow up in a world where the government can dictate what goes into her body. So I won't contribute to that.

@reeeeeeee

This is not new. You should have been campaigning long before the pandemic, given that many countries have specific vaccine requirements for entry.

reeeeeeee · 26/04/2022 10:40

backinthebox · 26/04/2022 09:33

Aaarghhhhh! I believe the saying is “there are none so deaf as those that will not hear.”

I suspect other posters could quote the science at you all day long, @WoodlandWalks123 but you would still reply with “but what do we REALLY knoooooowwwww?” I hear that in my head in the voice whiny teenager would use when they don’t want to hear something their parent is telling them.

But just in case you are still sticking your fingers in your ears and going “la, la, la” and listening to stories that a friend of a friend of a friend told you in the pub, here’s another scientific article published by actual scientists who know what they are on about and - here’s the thing - it was published in 2018 BEFORE WE EVEN KNEW ABOUT COVID!!!! Get that! People had been studying and making and using mRNA vaccines before you even knew you might need one for your cruise, but it’s ok, we don’t need to worry about side effects because they were mostly Africans who were taking it, or people with cancer who were probably going to die of it anyway.

mRNA vaccines have been used successfully against Zika, Ebola, Rabies and Influenza. They have also been used for targeted therapies against certain cancers. The usefulness of mRNA has been suspected since the 1970s, and understood since the 1980s, but the thing holding back it’s use in vaccines was not side effects but it’s stability as a molecule, a problem which has been solved by keeping it a very low temperatures. Currently there are a number of scientist in line for the Nobel Prize for Medicine or Science as a result of their many years of work on the use of mRNA in modern medicine.

As has also been pointed out by other posters, there are simply NO KNOWN CASES of someone having a vaccine and then having a side effect to that vaccine years later. It just doesn’t happen. There is a long article on this matter HERE but I suspect you won’t read it so here is the sentence, about halfway down, that you need to understand:

”no vaccine has caused chronic conditions to emerge years or decades later, says Robert Jacobson, medical director of the population health science program at the Mayo Clinic. “Study after study have looked for this with all sorts of vaccines, and have not found it to be the case,” he says.”

Covid vaccinations have been given in numbers never before seen in such a short space of time. The fact that the active parts of the vaccine are very unstable (see my comment above about it needing to be kept at very low temperatures

And you just believed that blindly didn't you?
www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy
"
Pandemrix caused narcolepsy
The UK Health Protection Agency (now Public Health England) undertook a major study of 4- to 18-year-olds and found that around one in every 55,000 jabs led to narcolepsy."

Just one example. You can look for the rest, of which there are a few.

reeeeeeee · 26/04/2022 10:41

User72757 · 26/04/2022 09:05

Are you able to name a single vaccine in world history where it was administered to a person and they were then well for 10 years, then after 10 years they developed a side effect? @WoodlandWalks123

Show quote history

"doctor I think this is a side-effect from a vaccine I had ten years ago"

"no. it can't be, therefore it's not".

reeeeeeee · 26/04/2022 10:42

backinthebox · 26/04/2022 09:44

Oh, I wrote a really long reply and the internet ate it. So here’s the short version because I have stuff to get on with today instead of arguing with science-deniers.

There are NO long term effects from vaccines. The vaccine is in and out of the body (especially the case with mRNA vaccines which are inherently unstable - they have to be kept at very low temperatures, remember?) in a matter of days. The entire process of setting up your body’s immune response is completed in a matter of weeks.

Scientists have been studying mRNA and it’s usefulness in vaccines and other medical treatments such as cancer gene therapy for decades. HERE is an article from Nature from 2018 (BEFORE WE EVEN KNEW ABOUT COVID!) detailing the extensive use of mRNA vaccines against Zika, Ebola, Rabies and Influenza.

Saying “but what do we REALLY knooooowww?” and using this as a reason not to have a vaccine which has allowed the world to begin to return to something approaching normality is the immature whining of the scientifically ignorant who are wilfully choosing to ignore the lifetimes work of experience scientists. HERE is another article, detailing the facts that lead us to be completely sure that a vaccine will not cause someone to suffer a catastrophic (or indeed any at all) side effects years later. The relevant bit, although the whole article is full of good bits, is this:
“no vaccine has caused chronic conditions to emerge years or decades later, says Robert Jacobson, medical director of the population health science program at the Mayo Clinic. “Study after study have looked for this with all sorts of vaccines, and have not found it to be the case,” he says.”

So, @WoodlandWalks123 take the vaccine, or don’t take it. But don’t superimpose your lack of knowledge on the rest of the world. The 5 billion people who have taken the vaccine and survived don’t really care if you don’t get on your cruise.

No long-term effects from vaccines.

Okay, so below proves you wrong. What now?

www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy
"
Pandemrix caused narcolepsy
The UK Health Protection Agency (now Public Health England) undertook a major study of 4- to 18-year-olds and found that around one in every 55,000 jabs led to narcolepsy."

Just one example. You can look for the rest, of which there are a few.

SpidersareTapdancing · 26/04/2022 10:49

Then don't go. Simple.

hepatocyte · 26/04/2022 10:50

@reeeeeeee

Speaking as an epidemiologist - whether Pandemrix actually caused cases of narcolepsy is actually far from conclusive.

Also...it's not an mRNA based vaccine?

Just one example. You can look for the rest, of which there are a few.
Do link?

SpidersareTapdancing · 26/04/2022 10:50

I mean it is very simple.

You want to go on the cruise ? Get vaccinated

You don't want to get vaccinated? No cruise for you

ilovesooty · 26/04/2022 10:54

BarbaraofSeville · 26/04/2022 08:55

But if everyone thought like you, covid would still be rife with thousands of people dying every day.

You're basically relying on other people having the vaccine so you can feel safe not having it.

Exactly. And people wouldn't be able to travel.

The OP is of course free to do as she likes.

Fernsinthegarden · 26/04/2022 10:54

I find the endless bashing of ‘just get it already, I’m not interested in your personal opinion or reasons, you’ve expressed some doubt therefore you must be an anti vax conspiracy theorist who only gets their news from Facebook’ so tedious. It won’t do any good changing the minds of anyone who isn’t vaxxed, they will just feel bullied and that their opinions are unworthy of being listened to.
fwiw (because it seems to be all that counts) I am vaccinated, mainly for travel and also because DH is vulnerable (although we’ve both have covid at least once.)

LindaEllen · 26/04/2022 10:58

I'm triple vaxxed, and literally only got it done because I knew if I didn't, it would stop me doing what I wanted to do further down the line.

hepatocyte · 26/04/2022 11:09

Fernsinthegarden · 26/04/2022 10:54

I find the endless bashing of ‘just get it already, I’m not interested in your personal opinion or reasons, you’ve expressed some doubt therefore you must be an anti vax conspiracy theorist who only gets their news from Facebook’ so tedious. It won’t do any good changing the minds of anyone who isn’t vaxxed, they will just feel bullied and that their opinions are unworthy of being listened to.
fwiw (because it seems to be all that counts) I am vaccinated, mainly for travel and also because DH is vulnerable (although we’ve both have covid at least once.)

But where is the endless bashing on this thread?

Most people have pointed out that the OP can either choose to get vaccinated and go on the cruise, or not get vaccinated and go to another holiday destination.

I have also said that vaccine requirements for travel are not new.

The problem is that the basis of which she is turning down coronavirus vaccination is not true - OP and others on the thread making various claims about safety not based in any kind of evidence.

hepatocyte · 26/04/2022 11:18

A cruise is also one of the types of holidays where vaccination could potentially have a great impact on reducing harm to travellers.

Tend to be taken by older populations, limited medical care on board if someone did get sick, a context in which infectious disease spreads very easily (see all previous norovirus outbreaks on cruises etc). Reducing the liklihood of infection and transmission on board is sensible, and vaccination requirements are probably a big driver in older people choosing to go with certain companies.

I just think if you have a strong opposition to be vaccinated, it wouldn't be hard to find an alternate holiday where this isn't an issue @WoodlandWalks123

Twizbe · 26/04/2022 11:24

I've had loads of vaccinations just for travel. I wanted to go on those holidays so I stuck my arm out and did it.

I've had my 5 year old vaccinated for covid just in case the change the rules again and he can still come on holiday.

If it helps as well. The technology for the mRNA vaccines has actually been around for 10 years or so. They'd been working on this technology long before covid as it's been shown to be a really good way of making vaccines. All they had to change was to make it target covid.

backinthebox · 26/04/2022 11:25

@reeeeeeee HERE’s a link to the U.K. Health Protection Agency’s own research on Pandemrix and other medications used during the H1N1 pandemic. Could you point out to me where exactly it says that 1 in 55000 vaccinated children got narcolepsy please? I’ve read the entire paper, and it says on page 22 that “After review of all of the available information, the case remains that a link between Pandemrix vaccine and narcolepsy has not been confirmed.” I’ve also read the SOMNIA paper by the US Centre for Disease Control, and they couldn’t find any link either. There’s a good laypersons’ article HERE suggesting why more cases of narcolepsy were uncovered during a short period of time. However the link you provided was not to a research paper, it was to the page of a charity offering help to people who wanted to pursue a legal case against Glaxo. However, all of the above ignores the fact that the reported cases of narcolepsy (of which there were fewer than you think) and indeed any of the other far scarier looking real side effects were all declared in the immediate period after the vaccine was administered. Which is what I was saying all along - there are no proven cases where long term side effects from a vaccine have been discovered years later.

So anyway, can you point me in the direction of a recognised piece of work that sets out the details of these side effects that were suffered years after a vaccine was given, and if you could point out which ones are specifically for mRNA vaccines that would be super. Thanks.

Samarie123 · 26/04/2022 11:36

For people saying about listening to stories on Facebook! Social media has been censoring vaccine injured people.

I personally know vaccinated people who have been injured and 5 dead! One of them my 37 ur old cousin!! And that’s the truth!

Do more research Please OP and stay safe.

Fernsinthegarden · 26/04/2022 11:36

hepatocyte · 26/04/2022 11:09

But where is the endless bashing on this thread?

Most people have pointed out that the OP can either choose to get vaccinated and go on the cruise, or not get vaccinated and go to another holiday destination.

I have also said that vaccine requirements for travel are not new.

The problem is that the basis of which she is turning down coronavirus vaccination is not true - OP and others on the thread making various claims about safety not based in any kind of evidence.

Show quote history

It’s not thread specific, just views that I’ve seen on mumsnet which are very heavy handed (on both sides of the argument.) You’re right that vaccine requirements aren’t new, and that claims on this thread could be damaging but it’s difficult to change someone’s mind and generally unhelpful when the third comment in this thread was -
‘Just get the vaccine. There's literally no excuse for not getting it.
I bet you would be vaccinated if getting Covid meant your face and body came out in boils like Smallpox. No?’

reeeeeeee · 26/04/2022 11:41

backinthebox · 26/04/2022 11:25

@reeeeeeee HERE’s a link to the U.K. Health Protection Agency’s own research on Pandemrix and other medications used during the H1N1 pandemic. Could you point out to me where exactly it says that 1 in 55000 vaccinated children got narcolepsy please? I’ve read the entire paper, and it says on page 22 that “After review of all of the available information, the case remains that a link between Pandemrix vaccine and narcolepsy has not been confirmed.” I’ve also read the SOMNIA paper by the US Centre for Disease Control, and they couldn’t find any link either. There’s a good laypersons’ article HERE suggesting why more cases of narcolepsy were uncovered during a short period of time. However the link you provided was not to a research paper, it was to the page of a charity offering help to people who wanted to pursue a legal case against Glaxo. However, all of the above ignores the fact that the reported cases of narcolepsy (of which there were fewer than you think) and indeed any of the other far scarier looking real side effects were all declared in the immediate period after the vaccine was administered. Which is what I was saying all along - there are no proven cases where long term side effects from a vaccine have been discovered years later.

So anyway, can you point me in the direction of a recognised piece of work that sets out the details of these side effects that were suffered years after a vaccine was given, and if you could point out which ones are specifically for mRNA vaccines that would be super. Thanks.

What exactly do you mean by "recognised"?

GivenchyDahhling · 26/04/2022 11:44

Yes, I did. But my parents live abroad, so not travelling would mean not being able to see my parents. If travel was unaffected I wouldn't have got vaccinated.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/04/2022 12:01

Travel is the only reason I got vaccinated

Same here, though I was roundly slated for it at the time

Interesting that so many are now prepared to say so, when back then everyone insisted they were only doing it for the common good ...

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/04/2022 12:04

Though actually, OP, I thought you could now go on a cruise if you're not jabbed - though you'd have to present them with a PCR or even have one at the port?

I can't speak for all lines, but I'm going on one next week and that's certainly what it said for mine

User72757 · 26/04/2022 12:15

@reeeeeeee oh no your poor children hopefully they will obtain all their baby and childhood vaccinations as teenagers/adults when they can consent without your permission.

backinthebox · 26/04/2022 12:22

@reeeeeeee What exactly do you mean by "recognised"?

What I mean by that is a peer reviewed paper where any experiments have been carried out with scientific rigour, statistically evaluated to a high standard and then published in a journal which has been edited for and is well read by experts in the field in question. Not just some random ‘he said, she said’ situation or Facebook, for example. But if you had an analytical bone in your body, you would know what I meant by that.

As for @Samarie123 - woah! I am scared for you, your friends and your family! If you personally know 5 people who have DIED and a whole load more with vaccine injuries, you need to tell the newspapers quickly! This needs to be stopped! Oh, no, hang on, I reckon you’ve made that up. 🙄 If you have a look on the Office for National Statistics website, you can quickly and easily find out that have been 23 documented cases of death in England and Wales proven to be caused directly by the Covid vaccine. None of those deaths were in anyone under the age of 35.

Beachcomber · 26/04/2022 12:32

No I wouldn't get vaccinated for a cruise / holiday.

I know too many women with serious menstrual issues following covid vaccination.

I've had covid twice now (Delta and Omicron, both times confirmed by a PCR test) so there seems little benefit in me having a vaccine.

All the people I know with covid at the moment are double if not triple vaccinated (some are properly ill, some totally fine).

So when I take all that into account, a holiday is not a good enough reason for me to have these vaccines.

It is odd that the company won't accept you with a negative test. Doesn't make sense (like much around covid vaccination).