Vulnerable people

[SantaClawsServiette]

I keep seeing people on threads who are worried or upset because they feel that lifting restrictions will make people who have health issues more vulnerable.

What confuses me about this is that a big part of the reason for lifting restrictions is that they already are not working. The reason everyone is getting omicron now in such numbers is because it is so contagious.

Masks and distancing as we've been doing don't work. Even N95 masks are not all that great, people working in hospitals wearing them are getting infected too.

Isolation doesn't work because most vaccinated people are asymptomatic, and testing isn't that accurate. Increasingly many people are not testing anyway. So there are lots and lots of people with covid around everywhere - if that weren't the case cases wouldn't be so high.

Tracing contacts is no longer possible or useful because everyone is being exposed all the time.

The vaccines aren't doing much to prevent spread.

So my question is this - given that to be really safe from catching covid the vulnerable have to stay home and avoid contacts now, how will listing restrictions change that?

@Aimeehedge

I am out and about and managing to “avoid exposure right now”

When my child is allowed to sit in class with positive kids and my husband has to sit in an office with positive co workers and I have to sit in an office of positive co workers then obviously the risk will be far greater. I I want to go to a restaurant or shop and people are positive the risk will be greater.

Stop spreading misinformation.

How are you doing this?!

@Aimeehedge

Well I haven’t caught it in recent months have I despite it being rife.

Perhaps I have been exposed to an asymptomatic person or few and luckily dodged a low viral load.

But the new plans will involve being exposed to many, many more people who will be more contagious.

If you’re standing in a room or 50 and 1 had Covid unknown this is obviously far less exposure than standing in a room of 50 and 10 have mild and symptomatic Covid.

The latter is far more likely to result in You getting it. It’s a far higher level of exposure.

To argue otherwise is defying basic logic.

If I sent my kids to school with DandV instead of waiting 48 hours, they’d spread it to a lot of children instead of just the one or two they might have spread it to before they had symptoms.

See also chicken pox.

It’s just basic public health.

I’ve done bugger all As have my siblings

Tested loads
Not one negative

And let’s just say I had a somewhat “gentle” approach to lockdown rules and mask qeeeing!

@BluebellsGreenbells

Covid is rife in schools, of course there are lots of exposure - teachers have been saying it for months! People have turned a blind eye because it doesn’t affect them. Now it will and there’s uproar.

Uproar??

Literally NO one is taking about it in my family, friends, colleagues, neighbours etc

No one is talking about it

Because… just not interested and not effecting us anymore

It’s bloody brilliant

@nettie68

My DH is currently undergoing cancer treatment. As well as being more vulnerable to covid, a positive test will delay treatment and increase the risk of the cancer spreading. I have to go out to work so we've had to make the difficult decision of us distancing at home which basically means me stuck in the spare bedroom when I'm not at work. This will have to continue until his treatment finishes or the covid risk is a lot lower than it is now.

Presumably a positive test for lots of contagious pre covid conditions would also have delayed treatment

Is there a thread on seatbelts for people who refuse to wear them? Asking for a 'friend' who doesn't wear them, thinks they are a bad idea, doesn't talk about them, has heard they are not going to be required anymore, but wants to make the effort to seek out seatbelt threads to post numerous times how little consequence seatbelts are to her. Counterintuitive to spend her time doing that I know. Different folks and all that.

A covid test is the only test for infectioous diseases he has to do before chemo. So not sure what else you think they test for?

@nettie68

A covid test is the only test for infectioous diseases he has to do before chemo. So not sure what else you think they test for?

If he rocked up with D&V?

nettie really hope your dh is doing ok.

Well obviously not at the moment, covid is the most likely infections disease that a patient could have hence the test

@UnTrucDeOuf

nettie really hope your dh is doing ok.

Thank you

Around here…. More people have norovirus than covid it seems

And if covid didn’t exist ie pre covid

And you lived in an area where norovirus was doing the rounds

Would you isolate? Would you expect those around you, in the streets, passer bys to adapt their behaviour for you? Even though they may be carrying norovirus?

@Toanewstart23

Around here…. More people have norovirus than covid it seems

And if covid didn’t exist ie pre covid

And you lived in an area where norovirus was doing the rounds

Would you isolate? Would you expect those around you, in the streets, passer bys to adapt their behaviour for you? Even though they may be carrying norovirus?

I don't see that nettie has suggested any course of action anyone else should take. They just described a very difficult situation, made worse by Covid. Mumsnet used to support members in these type of circumstances.

@Toanewstart23

Around here…. More people have norovirus than covid it seems

And if covid didn’t exist ie pre covid

And you lived in an area where norovirus was doing the rounds

Would you isolate? Would you expect those around you, in the streets, passer bys to adapt their behaviour for you? Even though they may be carrying norovirus?

I will do whatever it takes to keep my husband alive. I can't expect any one else to do anything.

Read their post. Imagine that was a friend talking. If someone said that to you in real life would you really reply as you do?

@UnTrucDeOuf

Read their post. Imagine that was a friend talking. If someone said that to you in real life would you really reply as you do?

Absolutely not

But we are on a discussion forum and I was interested in this poster’s stance. Given she posted, I presumed that was acceptable

@UnTrucDeOuf

Read their post. Imagine that was a friend talking. If someone said that to you in real life would you really reply as you do?

@nettie68 💐

A friend - support
A poster on mumsnet - discussion and debate

www.mumsnet.com/i/netiquette this is worth a read, regarding 'face to face' and 'friendly and supportive' comment. You have already been deleted upthread for this.

I was deleted for saying I hadn’t always followed the rules

Nothing whatsoever to do with this ouster. Not even read it!

I think you were deleted for your nasty comments about the vulnerable. I hope that's why (as that's the reason I reported your post).

@Toanewstart23

I was deleted for saying I hadn’t always followed the rules

Nothing whatsoever to do with this ouster. Not even read it!

Just out of interest, what would you do if you were in my position?

I’m of the view that over the last 2 years we have rightly had significant restrictions imposed, which have protected the NHS and vulnerable. During that time vaccines have been developed and become widespread, reducing serious illness.

There will always be some people who remain vulnerable to both Covid and other illnesses. Life cannot stop or be permanently restricted so significantly for everyone indefinitely. There has to come a time when restrictions are lifted. People who are vulnerable are very unfortunate and always have to live in a society which is more dangerous to them rather than to others. Every year flu or other illnessees can prove fatal to the very elderly and vulnerable….but they have to live with that risk. Society has taken measures to reduce risk and to reduce risk to individuals as far as possible (such as vaccines) but beyond that, the vulnerable have to make choices within an open society to protect themselves. This has always been the case.

The debate should be about exactly when the balance shifts so it is the right time to lift the restrictions. However, some people, both those who are vulnerable, those with family members who are vulnerable and those who are very anxious, will probably never feel living with Covid and lifting the restrictions, is acceptable. They will always feel lifting the restrictions means their world will be reduced to an unacceptable degree. They will all ways want to keep the restrictions and restrict 100% of the population.

Government has to decide the right time. They weigh the risks and downsides for the vulnerable against the needs of the majority and society. It probably isn’t possible for everyone to feel like ‘winners’ in this, but there has to be a time when the risks have reduced enough and mitigated enough, so the needs of the vast majority to return to normal life, tips the balance.

It is possible to restrict your own life, as I do, without restricting anyone else. Most people realise this.

All I want to do is survive this pandemic so I can get my old life back eventually and see my family grow up. In order to do that I can't access indoor spaces with other people, without a high risk. Especially if there's a high prevalence. I do think scientific advice as in Wales or Scotland should have been used to decide if symptomatic people should isolate, and proper £ support given.

But it makes it harder for transplants patients, cancer patients etc if there is a false narrative created that everyone who is severely immunosuppressed/compromised and wearing a mask in public somehow has extreme views on Covid measures. That's the sort of talk that results in real life abuse and attacks.

What I really want is pre infection protection (evusheld) for those where the vaccines haven't worked. Then I'll be back to a normal, sociable life.