Vulnerable people

[SantaClawsServiette]

I keep seeing people on threads who are worried or upset because they feel that lifting restrictions will make people who have health issues more vulnerable.

What confuses me about this is that a big part of the reason for lifting restrictions is that they already are not working. The reason everyone is getting omicron now in such numbers is because it is so contagious.

Masks and distancing as we've been doing don't work. Even N95 masks are not all that great, people working in hospitals wearing them are getting infected too.

Isolation doesn't work because most vaccinated people are asymptomatic, and testing isn't that accurate. Increasingly many people are not testing anyway. So there are lots and lots of people with covid around everywhere - if that weren't the case cases wouldn't be so high.

Tracing contacts is no longer possible or useful because everyone is being exposed all the time.

The vaccines aren't doing much to prevent spread.

So my question is this - given that to be really safe from catching covid the vulnerable have to stay home and avoid contacts now, how will listing restrictions change that?

@nettie68

Exactly what you’re doing. Exactly

But I would expect NO ONE to make a single adaptation on our account

No idea if you do or not

@VaccineSticker

Masks do work. My FFP2/N95 mask prevented me catching covid when omicron literally ripped through the workplace over two weeks whilst I was with them in a very enclosed space, sitting in close proximity to one another and working in groups together. I was the only one masked and the only one who didn’t catch it. Anecdotal evidence but it’s widely supported by strong scientific evidence but you choose to ignore it. Mask has to be fitted properly with a tight seal and no leaks for it to provide you with protection.

Same for my DS. He hasn’t had covid yet.

I am CEV and he wears it to protect me.

[quote VaccineSticker]@MangyInseam OP specifically mentioned that N95 masks don’t work. I am replying to her false claim.[/quote]
You don't seem to be reading very well. They do not work 100% Nurses on wards in full ppe are still becoming infected.

But what's more important is that that level of protection is not possible outside of special environments. You will not have 100% or even 50% of the population in specialist fitted masks that get changed out every few hours or every time they need to be removed.

@rainrainraincamedowndowndown

It's fine to feel that way op, but have some sympathy to the people who doesn't feel like you, Op. There are people who are already feeling anxious, you don't need to kick them even more.

It's really not just a matter of people feeling anxious though.

It's about forming public policy, and it's also about people being able to make good risk assessments for themselves. There are people in the thread who seem to believe that there is little covid in schools right now, in their workplaces or shops. That may make them feel safer but it's actually quite a false sense of security. If they had a more realistic assessment they might make different decisions.

@nettie68

Well obviously not at the moment, covid is the most likely infections disease that a patient could have hence the test

This kind of thing is a real problem for people waiting for things like surgery. In some cases the problem is as much the rulings around tests rather than the disease itself.

People waiting for surgery at the moment are going to have to be extremely careful no matter what given the number of cases. Not relying on others wearing masks but wearing very good ones themselves and avoiding the public as much as possible.

@nettie68

A covid test is the only test for infectioous diseases he has to do before chemo. So not sure what else you think they test for?

I was regularly tested for MRSA prior to chemo in 2020/2021 but was never tested for Covid-19. (I was tested prior to surgery before chemo however.) They did take my temperature, ask about symptoms and do bloods before each session though — which would have picked most things up provided I was honest with my answers (I was).

You don't seem to be reading very well. They do not work 100% Nurses on wards in full ppe are still becoming infected

Do you have a source for this and was it using backwards contact tracing?

I can't speak for other trusts but as far as I know from infection control in ours, where staff outbreaks do occur it doesn't usually happen on wards. Also, the viral load in a covid positive ward is likely to be much higher than you will encounter while in public. A well fitting but not fit tested FFP2 probably will do quite a lot to protect you from getting covid when out in public whereas you'd be daft to try doing an aerosol generating procedure on a covid ward with it.

Vulnerable people had their vaccines in Sept and Oct.

Latest reports today about waning protection from the booster:
"Protection faded more in preventing trips to urgent care and emergency departments, falling from 87 percent in the first two months to 66 percent after four months. After more than five months, vaccine effectiveness fell to roughly 31 percent,"

So many people, including the healthcare workers treating Covid patients, and elderly and vulnerable people, have about 31% protection right now.

30% is going to be f all use against any new variants. Even without these, we still have at least quite a few months to get through until the summer with substantially (the word the article uses) waning protection for those who had their boosters last autumn.

And masks do work.

In Cambridge health trust, a study showed that FFP3 mask use by staff reduced staff infection with Covid by up to 100%

Pretty impressive for a very simple measure that is already in place in the rest of the developed world.

You forget natural infection, a lot of people have now had Covid vaccinated or otherwise. There has to be some poor traction form that - where’s that report?

We’ve had no masks social distancing etc for the last 9 months. Even the (gasp) unvaccinated have been free to be out and about with cases at home, same as the vaccinated. Cases are low after a Christmas surge and hospital cases rose slightly at now lower than the start of the pandemic. I expect figures to drop more after the half term break.

I get confused about hospital cases though. Our local hospital has 70 people on the Covid wards. That seems a lot to me in terms of infection, as well as hospital resources being tied up and not available to people with other illnesses.

It is not that I want restrictions to continue, what I think is needed is the option of a fourth booster to NHS staff and CV/elderly patients who want it after 4-5 months. February is not a good time to be reaching the end the booster efficacy. May would be better. So those who had their boosters in Dec/Jan are in a better position.

@fudging

I get confused about hospital cases though. Our local hospital has 70 people on the Covid wards. That seems a lot to me in terms of infection, as well as hospital resources being tied up and not available to people with other illnesses.

It is not that I want restrictions to continue, what I think is needed is the option of a fourth booster to NHS staff and CV/elderly patients who want it after 4-5 months. February is not a good time to be reaching the end the booster efficacy. May would be better. So those who had their boosters in Dec/Jan are in a better position.

When did boosters two and three happen? Did I miss something?