If Boris goes will we reverse covid rules?

[Puppylucky]

Just that really. If the abolition of self isolation /testing etc is a ruse by Boris Johnson to divert press attention /stay in power and is a dangerous rejection of science, will this strategy be reversed by a new prime minister? I think it may be.

@Blinky21

And once everyone has had Omicron we can all get the next variant and the next and hope they areny more deadly, there's no reason they won't be. That's what happens when you stockpile vaccines, don't commit to vaccinating poorer countries, have relatively low vaccination rates and remove all rules...

Yes I am looking forward to having covid 3 or 4 times a year.

Has anyone even heard whether there will be any more vaccines this year, or are we just goingt o vaccinate the elderly and sod the rest of us?

I may be in the minority, but I disagree that all restrictions should be removed and actually think some are very sensible. Some news outlets are saying mask wearing in hospital will no longer be mandatory....this was actually one of the sensible restrictions and I think should continue as we enter places where individuals can be susceptible to illnesses far more than a night club (for example). It would be nice if restrictions on visiting are eased in some wards/situations but I see no harm in wearing mask in those environments to protect people.

I think there is no doubt that he is doing it early than anticipated as a political move - February was never on the cards.

It was actually, when plan B restrictions ended the date for removing final restrictions was set as March 24th or earlier if the figures allowed. I know some posters will be upset that the figures are dropping and everything is getting back to normal but it’s time to move on.

I know some posters will be upset that the figures are dropping and everything is getting back to normal

Oh have a

This sort of snidey bullshit has been a real negative side effect of covid.

It is not about being 'upset' - it is about genuinely believing the government has handled many aspects of covid badly and these politically-driven changes are premature.

On a personal level removing isolation suits me. On a societal level it is a huge risk to take with the lives of those who are much more at risk than I am.

politically-driven changes

Are they politically driven in all the other countries that are doing the same thing?

Why does it have to be a ruse to divert attention? Numbers are down so are deaths to the point its not even a pandemic. It is still possible that not everything is done to divert attention from something else. Its the right thing to do.

@FrenchFancie

This is not a mild disease! My friend is in hospital on an Ecmo machine, it’s 50/50 if she’s going to ever make it out alive, and if she does she’s probably going to be disabled and unable to work again. Her 9 year old daughter is facing losing her mum.

My CEV mum would have a very difficult time of things if she caught it. We lost my otherwise fit and healthy uncle last January to covid.

It’s not a mild disease.

The fact that some people experience it as mild is down to vaccinations and good luck!

Jesus wept it’s no wonder the rest of Europe look at the uk and BJ and wonder what kind of party drugs he’s on. The man is incompetent and doing anything to survive his political career and if that means a few more thousand people die than that’s ok by him!

It IS a mild disease for most. You can reverse what you've said and say that those who end up in hospital are unlucky. Personal anecdotes don't really mean much in the grand scheme. The numbers show that the huge majority survive Covid and the majority have no lasting problems. So yes, mild for most.

I think yes to be fair @TheKeatingFive moving it forward to February from March is a political personal one from Boris Johnson trying to save his own skin. March date would also tie in with Easter holidays so I think makes more sense.

Will it make that much difference - who knows. Would it have been done in March anyway - yes definitely in line with the initial Plan B and Coronavirus Act ending.

Also I think it is important to note these are only England rules as well!

I think yes to be fair @TheKeatingFive moving it forward to February from March is a political personal one from Boris Johnson trying to save his own skin.

But if the data supports it and other countries are all doing the same, what's the rationale for holding out?

Here in Ireland, the move was surprising and much more sudden than anticipated. But there was nothing politically motivated at all, our Sage equivalent were clear that in terms of public health there was no rationale for keeping them.

I know there has been lots of distracting context in the U.K. but I think that's blinding people to what's going on elsewhere.

No, of course Boris going wouldn't lead to a reversal.

There is no majority in the parliamentary Conservative party at the moment for restrictions, and whoever replaced Johnson would almost certainly not be one of the more restriction minded Tories.

But also, the Tories do appear to understand that they simply aren't in a position to impose restrictions on the British people anymore. It wouldn't work. They've lost that moral right, to the extent that it ever existed.

@VikingOnTheFridge

No, of course Boris going wouldn't lead to a reversal.

There is no majority in the parliamentary Conservative party at the moment for restrictions, and whoever replaced Johnson would almost certainly not be one of the more restriction minded Tories.

But also, the Tories do appear to understand that they simply aren't in a position to impose restrictions on the British people anymore. It wouldn't work. They've lost that moral right, to the extent that it ever existed.

100% agree. Restrictions are well and truly over, and I doubt many would followed if reintroduced.

@TheKeatingFive

politically-driven changes

Are they politically driven in all the other countries that are doing the same thing?

The bringing forward of these changes by one month is a political decision.

I am no expert on teh otehr countries and what their political situation is.

The bringing forward of these changes by one month is a political decision.

But as I said upthread

But if the data supports it and other countries are all doing the same, what's the rationale for holding out?

It's not an outlying decision. Timelines in lots of countries have changed.

@TheKeatingFive

The bringing forward of these changes by one month is a political decision.

But as I said upthread

But if the data supports it and other countries are all doing the same, what's the rationale for holding out?

It's not an outlying decision. Timelines in lots of countries have changed.

All I can say is I do not agree. Every day for our PM is about stopping that threshold of 54 letters being reached. That is all that matters to him thsi week.

If the CMO goes on TV and tells me it is the right thing to do - then I would view it differently.

The key bit from your earlier post was:
Here in Ireland, the move was surprising and much more sudden than anticipated. But there was nothing politically motivated at all, our Sage equivalent were clear that in terms of public health there was no rationale for keeping them.

Here in the UK the quotes from SAGE are that it was a political decision.

Of course it's political. It amazes me that we're nearly 2 years into this and anyone could fail to understand that all covid related decisions are unavoidably political, whether to introduce or get rid of restrictions.

Yes other countries timelines have changed but none of them have a leader who is under Police Investigation.

This is entirely driven not by any Covid data but by his desire to remain Prime Minister.

That isn't to say that if it was looked at it couldn't be justified but even until fairly recently the 24th March was seen as been the date we were working towards. I don't think anything has massively changed in the data that would change that date and I think most of us in England had that date and accepted it.

This is entirely about him saving his own skin and nothing else. And that is what makes it wrong.

I

Here in the UK the quotes from SAGE are that it was a political decision.

What quotes?

This is entirely driven not by any Covid data but by his desire to remain Prime Minister

Most things have multiple causes. Why would this be different?

I just don't really understand the reasoning that this is an entirely a political decision in the U.K., but entirely not in Denmark/ROI. Both of which have higher rates of covid than the U.K. right now, I believe.

I also think people need to be careful what they wish for. If Boris is toppled as PM, he's much more likely to be replaced by someone to the right of him than the left.

@TheKeatingFive

I also think people need to be careful what they wish for. If Boris is toppled as PM, he's much more likely to be replaced by someone to the right of him than the left.

Yes we all know that but that is no excuse for having a lying twat left unpunished.

I know exactly what the Tory party is, and who is in the running to replace him currently, but Johnson shoudl go.

Sunak is calling the shots anyway as any new spending is being vetoed.

I also think people need to be careful what they wish for

And I hate this patronising phrase.

Johnson is destroying our democratic system.

If he goes, the next one who may indeed be a right-wing cunt of the highest order will at least have a period of thinking 'I had better not just lie my arse off'.

We don't want Johnson to go because we are too thick to know who will replace him. It is because it is important to have some trust left in the system as a whole.

Conspiracy theorists are probably writing long essays on the continual attacks on Boris.
He's not following orders. (I say that after a friend has returned from Germany and was horrified that you need masks and passes and ID for sitting outside cafes too!)

Yes we all know that but that is no excuse for having a lying twat left unpunished.

This is entirely fair enough.

It's applicable to the OP's original point however as she quite explicitly seems to think an alternative PM would favour more restrictions, which I think is very unlikely.

Conversely the figures do NOT include people who died died directly as a result of covid 29, or e.g. 150 days after their test result. There are far more of those people than people dying in car crashes within the 28 day window.

Acutally, the government dashboard includes data for those who had covid on their death certificate, so who did in fact die directly as a result of covid. Those numbers are now actually lower than the official "within 28 days" number that is reported, so in fact we are now seeing the 'incidental' covid deaths overtake those actually dying because of it.

The 21st of January is actually a good day to demonstrate this - its the only day this year where deaths 'with covid' was over 300 - 305 in fact. But on that same day only 224 people died with covid listed on their death certificate as a contributing factor.

*I think its over. EVERYONE will have had omicron by this point or in the next few weeks.

I dont know a single person who hasnt had it this wave who has been PCR testing.

Most people dont know they have it because its only showing on LFTs a fifth of the time (anecdotal calculation based on 3 x weekly LFTs and twice PCR at my work).

I am pleased to say we did it. Well done all wine*

I'll drink to that! Normality is in sight folks