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Original poster

Can someone explain to me New Zealand?

791 replies

idontknow54789 · 27/01/2022 20:45

Sorry for the ignorance/naivety here but can someone explain to me the reasonings behind such extreme lockdown measures in NZ? At the beginning of the pandemic they're approach was fully accepted but surely now with vaccines and omnicrom being a 'milder' form of covid they have to start setting sense? Is it about the health system? I understand there's a severe lack of ICU beds but is locking down so much really better for health? Can anyone explain it to me please?

OP posts:
SquirrelG · 05/02/2022 19:20

So you would advocate for extreme restrictions on people’s freedom, incarceration even, for their own good? People who have capacity. Because that’s what has happened in NZ.

Oh for goodness sake! Talk about hyperbole. What are these "extreme" restrictions on people's freedom?

Tealightsandd · 05/02/2022 19:24

@SquirrelG

So you would advocate for extreme restrictions on people’s freedom, incarceration even, for their own good? People who have capacity. Because that’s what has happened in NZ.

Oh for goodness sake! Talk about hyperbole. What are these "extreme" restrictions on people's freedom?

And also, even if they were temporarily 'extreme' (which they weren't) a pandemic is an extreme situation.
SquirrelG · 05/02/2022 19:24

So you would advocate for extreme restrictions on people’s freedom, incarceration even, for their own good? People who have capacity. Because that’s what has happened in NZ.

Oh for goodness sake! Talk about hyperbole. What are these "extreme" restrictions on people's freedom?

Ok fair point I can't speak for the entire planet but every single person in my social circle/family then whenever NZ comes up thinks that Jacinda has lost the plot and are thankful that we do not live there.

And everyone in my social circle/family are grateful that we live in NZ - and that includes a few former UK citizens who have made their home here. Their reactions to Boris however .........., well I think it safe to say we are all very glad he is not our PM.

Tealightsandd · 05/02/2022 19:25

Next thing we'll have people complaining about the extreme measures of incarcerating drink drivers Hmm

SquirrelG · 05/02/2022 19:25

Whoops - didn't mean to post that first bit twice!! It looked as though it hadn't posted the first time, MN is doing some strange things atm!

Tealightsandd · 05/02/2022 19:26

And everyone in my social circle/family are grateful that we live in NZ - and that includes a few former UK citizens who have made their home here. Their reactions to Boris however .........., well I think it safe to say we are all very glad he is not our PM.

Definitely my extended family are very grateful to be in NZ rather than the UK.

Queuing4Fergs · 05/02/2022 19:43

I'd love to be grateful to be in NZ rather than the UK.

But I can't.

Because my country has shut me out.

MapleMay11 · 05/02/2022 19:47

@Queuing4Fergs

I'd love to be grateful to be in NZ rather than the UK.

But I can't.

Because my country has shut me out.

My family in NZ don't feel grateful either,. The mental health impact of the past two years has been significant for them.
Quartz2208 · 05/02/2022 19:48

@Tealightsandd

And everyone in my social circle/family are grateful that we live in NZ - and that includes a few former UK citizens who have made their home here. Their reactions to Boris however .........., well I think it safe to say we are all very glad he is not our PM.

Definitely my extended family are very grateful to be in NZ rather than the UK.

And where are they based in New Zealand because from this Auckland is very different to other areas.

And if they were stuck not in New Zealand and weren't allowed back in due to the speed at which the borders shut how would you/they feel then?

Tealightsandd · 05/02/2022 19:50

And if they were stuck not in New Zealand and weren't allowed back in due to the speed at which the borders shut how would you/they feel then?

Well my direct family are. They are in Australia.

The ones in NZ? Spread out. Some in Auckland, some in Christchurch.

Tealightsandd · 05/02/2022 19:52

@Queuing4Fergs

I'd love to be grateful to be in NZ rather than the UK.

But I can't.

Because my country has shut me out.

You could've done quarantine.
Quartz2208 · 05/02/2022 20:07

because it is a simple as a you could have done quarantine.........

PinkTonic · 05/02/2022 20:08

You could've done quarantine

Don’t you understand? You can’t just ‘do quarantine’ if you can’t get a space. It’s a lottery. Unless you’re a rock star or a sports personality of course. People haven’t even been able to get compassionate access to MIQ to see dying family.

Tealightsandd · 05/02/2022 20:31

My family in Australia would dearly love to visit elderly parents in NZ.

However painful and hard it is, though, they always say how much more they prefer being able to speak on video calls, rather than the alternative - the UK situation where approx 180,000 family members, many elderly, have been killed by Covid.

Quartz2208 · 05/02/2022 20:48

@Tealightsandd

My family in Australia would dearly love to visit elderly parents in NZ.

However painful and hard it is, though, they always say how much more they prefer being able to speak on video calls, rather than the alternative - the UK situation where approx 180,000 family members, many elderly, have been killed by Covid.

Your argument appears to be akin to saying that white collar crime is fine because it doesn't kill anybody. It may be true but it still doesn't mean that white collar crime isn't wrong and shouldn't be punished.

You can think that the UK situation was mismanaged and that New Zealand have elements that have been handled badly. No countries pandemic response is without criticism.

For someone who says we should be looking to other countries to copy you seem to be very focused on the UK response beyond all else and stuck in the past with it

SquirrelG · 05/02/2022 20:55

And if they were stuck not in New Zealand and weren't allowed back in due to the speed at which the borders shut how would you/they feel then?

Not everyone is "stuck" - despite the horror stories told on MN citizens have been returning here. Anyone would would think that not one has made it back since March 2020! Of course this is MN, so exaggeration is the order of the day.

Quartz2208 · 05/02/2022 21:59

That is me you are quoting @SquirrelG and I don't think it has ever been said that everyone was stuck at all, I don't think there has been an exaggeration at all. Some people have though I dont think that can be up for discussion

Queuing4Fergs · 05/02/2022 23:10

I have played the MIQ lottery system 3 times, and didn't even get close, so 'you could have just done quarantine' is utter bullshit.

I have young children who are not NZ citizens. My British husband could not just take 3 weeks off work to look after the children even if I could have got home to spend 1 week with my dying father.

Yes, I get that I (and my father) are collateral damage in the eyes of many NZ'ers (and, weirdly, Tealightsandd) but I'm a NZ citizen and I feel utterly betrayed. Team of 4 million. The other 1 million can fuck off, so it seems

Tealightsandd · 05/02/2022 23:29

I'm very sorry about your father @Queuing4Fergs

When you talk of collateral damage though. Do you think it's better to have a UK style. A whopping 180,000 people killed by Covid (and counting) collateral damage?

The poor, the disabled, the elderly, and some minority ethnic groups are at higher risk from Covid. Do people on this thread think these groups should all be collateral damage?

It's utterly utterly awful what the pandemic has done. The shame of it is that had everywhere in the world done the same as NZ, there wouldn't have been so many people either unable to visit loved ones and/or losing them prematurely to SARS-COV-2. It would've been over on a few months.

Whether the MIQ could've been managed slightly differently, now that is something perhaps you're right about? I expect it's very very difficult to set-up and maintain particularly in such an extreme emergency situation as a pandemic. Perhaps some tweaking should've happened, if possible. But, certainly the alternative - the UK approach - was horrific.

I really am very sorry for your loss Flowers

Tealightsandd · 05/02/2022 23:33

NZ based their policy on the lesser of two evils. It's impossible not to have collateral damage in a pandemic (although, like I say, if the whole world had done the same as NZ, it would never have gone on so long).

Because it's impossible to avoid all collateral damage in a pandemic, what is the most moral (and economy saving) thing to do? NZ opted for the least harmful option. There was no good option.

Slinkymalinky03 · 05/02/2022 23:56

It is absolutely shameful that New Zealand only became a donor to GAVI in 2020, with a pitiful pledge compared to other developed nation donors. This programme has saved the lives of 13 million people since it was introduced - have many hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost because of Jacinda Ardern's failure to step up and do what is morally right? It appears that saving lives is only important if its those of her own citizens.

SquirrelG · 06/02/2022 00:16

@Slinkymalinky03 - I was under the impression that this thread was about lockdown measures in NZ. What has GAVI got to do with it? NZ in its position in the South Pacific helps a lot of other countries in this part of the world, as does Australia, but that has nothing to do with covid measures. As for hundreds of thousands of lives being lost - do you have any proof of this?

Slinkymalinky03 · 06/02/2022 00:24

[quote SquirrelG]@Slinkymalinky03 - I was under the impression that this thread was about lockdown measures in NZ. What has GAVI got to do with it? NZ in its position in the South Pacific helps a lot of other countries in this part of the world, as does Australia, but that has nothing to do with covid measures. As for hundreds of thousands of lives being lost - do you have any proof of this?[/quote]
This thread is about New Zealand's response to the pandemic. I'm well aware of what New Zealand does and quite frankly, it's far too little compared to other developed nations. GAVI leads Covax - perhaps now you can see the link and the sudden well timed eagerness of Jacinda Ardern to become a donor?

iloathhousework · 06/02/2022 01:49

@Slinkymalinky03

It is absolutely shameful that New Zealand only became a donor to GAVI in 2020, with a pitiful pledge compared to other developed nation donors. This programme has saved the lives of 13 million people since it was introduced - have many hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost because of Jacinda Ardern's failure to step up and do what is morally right? It appears that saving lives is only important if its those of her own citizens.
NZ has provided vaccines for 800,000 people in the Pacific region through GAVI and has topped this up to provide a delivery of vaccinations to at least 1.2 million people on the South Pacific region.

As well as providing vaccinations, NZ has provided medical equipment, medical personnel, field hospitals, transport, and PPE to many Pacific Island nations including PNG. Additionally, NZ provided well over $1m in additional financial aid to the pacific islands during 2021.

You consider the above a pittance?

And I don't think you can blame Jacinda Arden for previous govts. decisions to not join GAVI, cos that is simply illogical.

iloathhousework · 06/02/2022 03:37

@Slinkymalinky03

Could you please explain what you mean when you say "GAVI leads Covax - perhaps now you can see the link and the sudden well timed eagerness of Jacinda Ardern to become a donor?"

Thanks