Refusing services to unvaccinated. What are your thoughts?

[TheChip]

I'm just curious to hear of people's thoughts on this.
I have currently been refused a service due to being unvaccinated, in the UK. Its not a service that would require close proximity like a hairdresser, but in the same space for a period of time.

My thoughts on it are while I understand and respect people's choices and comfort levels, I do find it hard to grasp when the virus is both passed between those vaccinated or unvaccinated. Even if you throw in the comments about how vaccination reduces transmission, it is still transmissible.

I would have been more than willing to LFT before every contact, and wear a mask. But this wasn't an option. Which I guess is the part I find most difficult to understand. That they would be comfortable and willing to be around those vaccinated, possibly even without testing. Which I'd expect testing to be expected for both vaccinated and unvaccinated for someone who is clearly so uncomfortable.

So yeah, what are your thoughts

I think that it should be the choice of each individual whether or not to get vaccinated. However, I think it is also the choice of others whether they allow them to use a service where they may pose a risk.

My MIL is CEV as is her daughter who lives with her. They have an unvaccinated cleaner and quite honestly, it worries me. However, we have discussed the risks with MIL and she is still happy to have the cleaner in her home. In her place, I would not be.

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross I'm sorry, where have I expected anyone to understand my stance?

Also where have I demanded anything from anyone?

I'm simply posting here asking for people's thoughts on situations like this.

I've also been given a valid point to help me understand the part I was struggling to grasp - why this instructor has made the choice they have when they are at risk all the same. The isolation periods disrupting the lessons. It makes perfect sense.

The vaccine does not appear to reduce transmission for people who have the current dominant strain but as it reduces the number of people who get Covid, it indirectly clearly does reduce transmission. The instructor may well have been asking everyone to do a LFT before getting into a pretty confined space with them. It's not unreasonable for them to make their own decisions about how much risk they are happy to e

Oops! Sent early!
happy to expose themselves too. You can't one the one hand argue for individuals being able to make their own choices without attention to the greater good whilst at the same time arguing that the driving instructor is not able to make their own choice.

@Goldbar

I think it’s pretty disgusting! I’m triple vaccinated but my dh has decided against it and has no jabs at all. I can’t believe it’s come to this I really can’t. I have no interest in what jabs anyone else has had.

I think you need to take a step backwards and consider what everyone has been through.

If you look back, we have had almost two years of fear, grief, lies, confusion, lockdown restrictions, lost earnings, economic hardship, government hypocrisy, vaccination hype and vaccination hysteria. We are all very tired and weary at this point and, given the lack of effective or trustworthy leadership in this country, it's up to us to make up our minds where to draw our own boundaries.

On that basis, although it's not a choice I make myself, I can't really get worked up about someone making the judgement that they would prefer not to be in close contact with unvaccinated clients. Likewise, I don't think anyone who chooses not to be vaccinated is 'selfish'. We have to make our own risk assessments at this point. This is a world after all where it is government guidance that children testing negative in Covid-positive households are ok to go to school.

This is well written.

There is a difference between those who are medically exempt and those who choose not to have the vaccine - those who are medically exempt may (depending on why they are medically exempt) fall under the equality act. Therefore it is illegal to discriminate against them. It is not illegal to treat people who choose not to be vaccinated differently.

In the end, as long as he doesn’t break the equality act, the driving instructor has the right - both morally and legally - to select his pupils as he likes. He can choose to refuse to teach anyone wearing yellow trousers if he likes.

There may be implications to his business for this and he needs to accept them. He has obviously lost the Op’s business. He may lose other people who disagree with his stance if word gets out. (The majority of driving pupils are teenagers - teenagers talk a lot and are not always tactful - when I was in sixth form I knew which driving instructor’s pupils always failed first time, which one had terrible BO and which one was seriously fit months before I turned 17.) He may also gain pupils as a result of his stance - some may find it comforting to know that the person sitting in the seat before you is jabbed.

Either way - he has presumably weighed all this up and decided he is willing to take the consequences.

Personally - I suspect he has such a long waiting list that he really doesn’t care if half a dozen people take umbrage and find someone else.

Appalling. I would encourage others who live locally to boycott this business - hit them where it hurts.

Where I live driving instructors are in short enough supply that if they took this stance there would be some antivaxxers changing their stance just to get lessons. Like all those atheists who get their kids baptised to go to religious schools. Most people's beliefs only go so far when they get in the way of their life goals

I’d be more likely to support a business that insisted on vaccination for close contact services (excepting medical exemptions), just as I wouldn’t support a business with an anti-vax stance. I’ve slowly stopped using a personal trainer I had who was vocally anti-vax on Facebook.

Driving instructor slots are like gold dust at the minute so it’s unlikely she needs your custom. Private businesses can do what they like within the confines of equality legislation.

You’ve made a choice not to be vaccinated, they can chose not to have your business. It seems fair to me.

When I learnt to drive it wasn’t that unusual for pupils to drop a previous pupil back at college / work / home, so it’s not just driving instructor but all other pupils that may not be happy sharing a confined with someone unvaccinated without a medical exemption.

On your LFT comment as long as it is costing me as a taxpayer I wouldn't want anyone accepting that. In other countries the negative LFT works because they have to pay for the tests and the results certified by a pharmacist.

If asked and you said yes I'm vaccinated....what happens next? You have to show proof?

Or do people take your word for it?

Well their business, their choice.

@Frogsonglue

Completely unacceptable, and about exerting power rather than being anything to do with safety. Not being vaccinated is a personal choice. I am fully vaccinated but have no interest whatsoever in knowing other people's status

This

Hilarious A vaccination that makes the vaccinated more vulnerable than the unvaccinated by the logic on here.

If I were a driving instructor with medical vulnerabilities or elderly I would not accept unvaccinated learners and I would want all learners to take an LFT before a lesson. It might affect my income negatively but that would be a price worth paying.

I think it's good if there are consequences for this essentially selfish and anti-social choice. There's no moral justification for refusing the vaccine or the booster.

Those LFTs should only be free to people that need them for work like NHS, everyone else should pay, vaccinated or not.

@SilverontheTree

I would want to know why you are unvaccinated. If you have a good medical exemption it would be different compared to if you’re just being an idiot. HTH

But if you are worried about the risk from unvaccinated people, then then reason they are not vaccinated does not make one iota of difference.

@EnviroLeg

As an unvaccinated person you are exercising your freedom of choice (and rightly so) not to be vaccinated. You expect that others respect your choice and not to judge you. I fully support you with this - this is absolutely your choice and right.

What I struggle slightly with if I’m honest is whether, if freedom of choice is so important to you, do you also respect the choice of the driving instructor not to provide a service to you?

If we genuinely have freedom of choice, I feel that freedom should work both ways (barring discriminatory behaviour).

I personally wouldn’t care whether or not you are vaccinated and you would be welcome in my car should I have a driving school but clearly the instructor has different opinions to you. I feel we have to also respect the right of the instructor to hold that different opinion. Wishing her business to fail because she holds a particular opinion seems a little harsh to me.

Good luck with your lessons though! 🙂

Completely agree with this. Driving instructor wasn't comfortable that is their choice. You don't have to understand it just accept it same as others have to do with your choice.

Being unable to be vaccinated is completely different and that is the difficulty respecting everyones choices while making sure those who cannot be vaccinated are not limited either. (No idea how to solve that though)

But if you are worried about the risk from unvaccinated people, then then reason they are not vaccinated does not make one iota of difference.

Being exposed to occasional unvaccinated person is much lower risk than accepting any unvaccinated customer.

@User6397254

Those LFTs should only be free to people that need them for work like NHS, everyone else should pay, vaccinated or not.

then they wouldn't use them and the health service need the reporting stats

You’ve made a choice not to be vaccinated, they can chose not to have your business. It seems fair to me.

I agree with this

@Sally872

But if you are worried about the risk from unvaccinated people, then then reason they are not vaccinated does not make one iota of difference.

Being exposed to occasional unvaccinated person is much lower risk than accepting any unvaccinated customer.

The risk comes from whether they have Covid or not though. They can be vaccinated and have Covid, and unvaccinated and not have Covid.

Get all customers to test beforehand.

I think it is her health her choice - just like it is your health your choice.

Like I said, I could have LFT before each lesson but that wasn't an option or even a requirement. So that means, it's quite possible that vaccinated people are more of a risk than I would have been.

This is really skewed thinking. If this is the kind of 'logic' that made you decide not to have the vaccine, I expect your reasoning to be heavily flawed.