Refusing services to unvaccinated. What are your thoughts?

[TheChip]

I'm just curious to hear of people's thoughts on this.
I have currently been refused a service due to being unvaccinated, in the UK. Its not a service that would require close proximity like a hairdresser, but in the same space for a period of time.

My thoughts on it are while I understand and respect people's choices and comfort levels, I do find it hard to grasp when the virus is both passed between those vaccinated or unvaccinated. Even if you throw in the comments about how vaccination reduces transmission, it is still transmissible.

I would have been more than willing to LFT before every contact, and wear a mask. But this wasn't an option. Which I guess is the part I find most difficult to understand. That they would be comfortable and willing to be around those vaccinated, possibly even without testing. Which I'd expect testing to be expected for both vaccinated and unvaccinated for someone who is clearly so uncomfortable.

So yeah, what are your thoughts

Have you really not followed the news that for 2 years we've been living through a vicious pandemic that has killed hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, and destroyed peoples livelihoods?

Or do you just like being difficult?

You can choose whether to have the vaccine or not. The instructor can choose if he wants to take on unvaccinated people as his learners. He isn't obliged to have anybody as his customer. It seems reasonable to me.

I could understand it if being vaccinated stopped you getting it but that’s not the case. Are there any credible studies that show that unvaccinated people are more likely to transmit the Omnicron variant? Many people are still very scared though as they’ve been living with psychological bombardment for the last 2 years and being encouraged to think that unvaccinated people are like plague carriers.

"The question is how can we know if OP is being discriminated against?"

There has to be a breach of the equality act 2010. This isn't one.

@Marchmount

I could understand it if being vaccinated stopped you getting it but that’s not the case. Are there any credible studies that show that unvaccinated people are more likely to transmit the Omnicron variant? Many people are still very scared though as they’ve been living with psychological bombardment for the last 2 years and being encouraged to think that unvaccinated people are like plague carriers.

It's not just about transmission - it's because vaccination means you're less likely to have it in the first place, and that's important. L

@svara, that part of one has, which doesn’t help trying to convince people that some of the more outlandish ones won’t.

There was a time not so long ago when gay men were refused services because people were afraid they would catch AIDS from them

Not just gay men - women who are HIV+ too and unfortunately can still happen being refused tattoos and piercings despite this being against the Equality Act 2910.

However this is all about risk of which there is none if on effective treatment and even if not the service should follow correct health and safety precautions. Different scenario to COVID re vaccination and transmission.

Just to add - you can’t catch AIDS

I know they keep saying the vaccinated are much less likely to have it, but that really isn't the case. Vaccinated people are getting and transmitting it just as much as before. The only thing they claim it does actually do is reduce the chance of hospitalisation and so far, thankfully, that appears to be the case.

It's the instructors prerogative whether they offer lessons to non vaccinated people.
However, and correct me if I'm wrong, I was under the impression vaccinations don't actually protect others from contracting the virus, they just offer a level of protection for the vaccinated person to lessen their symptoms & reduce the risk of medical intervention/needing hospital treatment?

Surely these companies are going to have to say what being vaccinated means though because someone could have had 2 AZ vaccines a year ago and not had the booster.

"Vaccinated people are getting and transmitting it just as much as before."

That is not correct.

[quote Staffy1]@svara, that part of one has, which doesn’t help trying to convince people that some of the more outlandish ones won’t.[/quote]
Vaccine passports were a 'conspiracy theory', we were told there were no plans to vaccinate children either

@anniegun

I do not blame a driving instructor for wanting to avoid unvaccinated people. It was a good call for them to make and I would do the same

Neither do I given the potential for loss of livelihood due to the isolation requirements.

@TheChip

That is a good point about unvaccinated needing to isolate, ultimately disrupting lessons.

As for reasons why one is unvaccinated, that really shouldn't be relevant. They either have an issue with unvaccinated or they don't. I dont think a medical exemption should really matter. Especially if it is a case of not wanting the disruption caused by the isolation period of an unvaccinated person.

The key difference is that if you're unvaccinated with a medical exemption, you don't have to isolate if someone in your household tests +ve.

I live in Western Australia and from the 31st of this month, the unvaccinated are going to come under the strictest restrictions in the world that I’m aware of. And I say this as a triple vaxxed ICU nurse, and even I went ‘oh wow’.

They won’t be able to visit any hospitals or aged care facilities, any drinking or dining at any hospitality venue (so from a posh restaurant right down to McDonald’s but they can get takeaway), no amusement parks or the zoo, no theatres or movie cinemas, no music festivals, no gyms, no indoor play centers (ie: soft play), the casino, bottle shops (the off license - you can’t buy alcohol in supermarkets here), no nightclubs or live music venues. For real. It’s all a bit surreal.

There are very strong views on both sides. I have chosen not to have the vaccine. If unvaccinated are eg excluded from NHS care then so should the obese be who are a greater burden day to day on the NHS than unvaccinated often very healthy people.

It’s up to the driving instructor surely. If you choose not to vaccinate, that is acceptable. If someone chooses not to teach you to drive because of it, that is also acceptable.
Consequence of choice.

I imagine the instructor will ask potential customers to see their NHS Covid pass in the same way it has to be shown to get into a nightclub or other big venue now. Seems like a good move to my mind.

"As for reasons why one is unvaccinated, that really shouldn't be relevant. They either have an issue with unvaccinated or they don't."

Having a medical exemption is where the equality act comes into play.

@TheChip

I know they keep saying the vaccinated are much less likely to have it, but that really isn't the case. Vaccinated people are getting and transmitting it just as much as before. The only thing they claim it does actually do is reduce the chance of hospitalisation and so far, thankfully, that appears to be the case.

The only thing? Reducing hospitalisation which can mean death plus the impact on the NHS which had lead to decreased services elsewhere and cancelled operations for other health conditions is actually pretty relevant. Not to mention the associated costs.

Vaccination means reduced chance of catching it, reduced chance of passing it on, reduced chance of being hospitalised and dying from it and of benefit to those we engage with including those more vulnerable. It also allows us to continue our lives with more reassurance.

@TheChip

I know they keep saying the vaccinated are much less likely to have it, but that really isn't the case. Vaccinated people are getting and transmitting it just as much as before. The only thing they claim it does actually do is reduce the chance of hospitalisation and so far, thankfully, that appears to be the case.

That's incorrect. You're also less likely to catch it in the first place.

I am vaccinated but woudl refuse to answer the question unless there really was no option, because I do not agree with this.

We need to try to advise people with scientific info if possible, not bully them into submission.

@TheChip

I did state that I understand and respect people's choices and comfort levels. I just simply take my business elsewhere.

My concerns are that in this case, it seems like the issue is that I am unvaccinated. Like I said, I could have LFT before each lesson but that wasn't an option or even a requirement. So that means, it's quite possible that vaccinated people are more of a risk than I would have been. Which means the whole reason for the refusal was only because of my vaccination status. Or at least, that is how it seems.

I just personally don't understand that stance.

The pp who mentioned about the isolation periods makes a lot of sense though. I'd like to hope that was the reasoning behind it and not because of vaccination status.

Many people may not personally understand your stance of choosing to remain unvaccinated.

You appear to want everyone to understand and accept your choices without question, but you demand explanation from others on their choices?

Well it's not much reduction considering the amount of people still catching it when they're triple vaccinated.

I know they keep saying the vaccinated are much less likely to have it, but that really isn't the case. Vaccinated people are getting and transmitting it just as much as before.

Where are the statistical facts to back that up?