17,731 total deaths from Covid in the UK with no other underlying health issues

[CUniverse]

ONS released this data mid December.

Does it make any difference to how you feel about the way the pandemic was handled? Does it detract from the fears you have about Covid yourself?

Is it even worth knowing these figures?

www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19withnootherunderlyingcauses?s=08

@hamstersarse

They haven’t *@ouch1000*

Targeted protection is what we’ve always done for every disease, this blanket approach imported from China is very new.

Uhuh, and what is the difference between coronavirus, and the other infectious diseases we put measures in place for....?

@hamstersarse

I agree with *@BogRollBOGOF*

It is estimated that 80% of chronic disease is lifestyle related. I don’t understand why people haven’t changed what they can in their lifestyle starting in March 2020, this data has been here all along. If they had, all the stats would look very different. You can improve your metabolic health significantly in 21 days.

The data also makes me wonder why the Great Barrington declaration was so vehemently ridiculed. It’s been obvious from the start that targeted protection would be optimal. Instead we’ve trashed the economy, got inflation on the rise and totally unnecessarily ruined millions of children’s education.

Maybe some people just don’t care? Maybe they enjoy their cigarette and are happy to accept an earlier death?

this blanket approach imported from China is very new

We’ve not had a pandemic on this scale in living memory.

Plus, and I’m straying into tin foil hat territory now, if the theory that this was a lab-leaked virus, then you’ve got to wonder at china’s approach. What do they know that we don’t about this virus? If it’s really “just a cold”.

OK so please tell me how this targeted protection would have worked. Yes we had a degree of it wiith shielding bit even than with schools shut it was difficult to truly shield my dh who is on immunosupressants due to a non fucking lifestyle disease. I also have a couple of pre existing conditions including asthma which again I'm not sure how I could have prevented that.
So what do we do. Ship off everyone with a pre existing condition or maye just the ECV to a compound where they can be educated and treated by other ECV individuals.
Seriously if it would have worked than surely it would have been done.

@ouch1000

Jay Bhattacharya, professor of medicine at Stanford University, one of the co-authors, very much stands by the essence of the GBD and is still against lockdowns. Or at least he was on the 4th January 2022. And no, the podcaster is very far from being an anti-vaxxer, he had the Pfizer CEO on a few weeks before this and takes a lot of time to try and understand the full landscape of all of this.

GBD discussion is around 1hr 35

Also just back to the OP. There were 65,000 excess deaths in 2020, so......yeah, disease and cure and all that.

@Northsoutheastwest76

OK so please tell me how this targeted protection would have worked. Yes we had a degree of it wiith shielding bit even than with schools shut it was difficult to truly shield my dh who is on immunosupressants due to a non fucking lifestyle disease. I also have a couple of pre existing conditions including asthma which again I'm not sure how I could have prevented that. So what do we do. Ship off everyone with a pre existing condition or maye just the ECV to a compound where they can be educated and treated by other ECV individuals. Seriously if it would have worked than surely it would have been done.

Well what we did do didn't do a great deal of protecting people. As I said pages back firstly and most importantly people should have been financially supported if they needed to shield so there wasn't any financial pressure on them to be at risk going to work to survive. Proper plans put in place for them to access essential services - shopping, deliveries etc etc. Teachers could be deployed to do online teaching for those that needed it (to avoid being in school) Health and social care staff could be moved around to enable those that are at less risk to do in-person tasks and those at most risks to do the long arm stuff.

There is a massive middle ground between shutting everyone up for months on end and "shipping everyone off to a compound."

The measures that were put in place have worsened outcomes for the very people that they were trying to protect. It has been a lose:lose situation for everyone.

You could never shield the most vulnerable people because they are the ones who need the most basic interactions to stay alive e.g. care workers and nurses for prolonged interactions.

But if less restrictions were in place there would have been more COVID circulating so even more chance of ECV being infected during hospital visits. And blood tests etc. DH wfh throughout so didn't need furlough but I still worked so they would have had to pay me to stay home town and and provide onine learning for our 3 dds and all the families with an ECV member. Can't remember the stats but at least 20% ECV had school aged DC.

Not sure where town came from.

Exactly @Mickarooni

There are plenty of people out there who are pre-diabetic and don't know it. They are at a greater risk from Covid. Also, we don't as yet know if there are associated genetic risk factors. So I suspect those numbers aren't correct.

@hamstersarse

I agree with *@BogRollBOGOF*

It is estimated that 80% of chronic disease is lifestyle related. I don’t understand why people haven’t changed what they can in their lifestyle starting in March 2020, this data has been here all along. If they had, all the stats would look very different. You can improve your metabolic health significantly in 21 days.

The data also makes me wonder why the Great Barrington declaration was so vehemently ridiculed. It’s been obvious from the start that targeted protection would be optimal. Instead we’ve trashed the economy, got inflation on the rise and totally unnecessarily ruined millions of children’s education.

You got what you wanted, then, @CUniverse? This type of conversation?

80% of the population over 50 has two or more underlying conditions.

You wanting to censor conversation again @Dishhh?

I must remember the Acceptable Conversation Points. Keep forgetting, but the Ministry of Truth do always turn up and never fail to remind me ⭐️

I see reports of “healthy young person seriously ill with covid” and they are obese.

It is heartbreaking

We have to have the courage to say to people that obesity is a health condition in itself. It is treatable. Just don’t follow NHS high starch guidelines!

It’s like they want a sick population

And as far as I can see we are now moving to targeted support. Boosters for those that need them and please leave the rest of us alone

Well I know one person who was young and healthy and ended up in ICU for weeks with it and another, also fairly young and with children who died from it so no, those stats don’t change how I feel. I also know a friend who lost her elderly dad to it. Of course at his age he will have been more vulnerable to it but I grew up knowing this girl and knew her dad who was one of the loveliest sweetest people I had ever met. He may have been old but it was a big loss. Why should value be placed on people depending on how healthy they are?

@Thievesoil it is counted as a co morbidity.

@hamstersarse

You wanting to censor conversation again *@Dishhh*?

I must remember the Acceptable Conversation Points. Keep forgetting, but the Ministry of Truth do always turn up and never fail to remind me ⭐️

Was I talking to you, Hamster? Or censoring anything? I was saying to OP only that the thread had veered towards the conversation intended.

Yet the OP laid into anyone suggesting this. @Dishhh

No it doesn't help me particularly.

I have an 'underlying health condition' although it isn't something that would lead to an early death in normal times.

Covid made me pretty poorly. I ended up in hospital, rushed there due to a very real risk of heart attack or stroke. I know have another life long health condition and two more tablets to take daily due to this covid complication.

If I'd had a heart attack that day and died due to it (the issue was being caused by covid), does the fact that I have arthritis, mean that my death in my 40s wouldn't have been deemed as important or worth as much as someone the same age without arthritis?! After all, I had an underlying health condition so it's ti be expected???

@Northsoutheastwest76

Yet the OP laid into anyone suggesting this. *@Dishhh*

Posting history would suggest otherwise. The tactics might have been a bit more sneaky here - post an oblique OP with some stats and let other posters do the work.

@JuergenSchwarzwald

Even if someone had an underlying condition it doesn't mean that that underlying condition was the reason that covid hit them harder than others of a similar age, it could be some other reason nobody knew about.

And I suspect that those who seemingly died without having underlying issues did have underlying issues, just not one anyone had diagnosed yet. Could be a genetic weakness. There has to be some reason why a seemingly healthy person dies of covid and another seemingly healthy person tests postive and has no symptoms at all and the inbetween of having long covid.

^^ This. My df in his 60s died from covid last year. He had angina. While I can see how this hastened his death once he was seriously ill with covid, it doesn't explain why covid made him seriously ill in the first place. His death will be recorded as 'with underlying health condition' but as I say, does not explain why covid hit him so hard.

Oh, and I've never been particularly scared despite working in a school with little protection or mitigations. I was fortunate to work from home for the two school lockdowns due to my role (and being vulnerable my headteacher encouraged that) so that aspect was okay. I'm surrounded by covid most days - we have almost 10% of our children off with covid, more who are in school whilst having a covid positive household. I haven't got the option of being scared of covid.

But I don't like posts minimising the stats because of 'underlying health conditions' as I know first hand that most of those conditions aren't something you would expect to shorten your life span ordinarily. And even if it did - those lives are still cut short.

Which is why they feel inappropriate and minimising, as if those deaths or serious illnesses are deemed less important than if the person didn't have an underlying condition.

@Abraxan it is a vile attitude. Don't forgot 80% of chronic illness is lifestyle too apparently so it is probably your own fault.
The irony of this is that my dh used to exercise regularly until he could hardly walk due to arthritis.
My asthma started when I was young and fit too. Yet of course it must be because I am a lazy obese person who funnily enough exercises lots. Or maybe I am smoker or drinker. Also no..
I hope you continue to improve. COVID can be nasty and I can see it throwing up lots iof health issues in the future. So the numbers with pre existing conditions will shoot up.

Yes @Dishhh it was sneaky but I know OP really laid into @ollyollyoxenfree earlier when she suggested a minimising agenda.