17,731 total deaths from Covid in the UK with no other underlying health issues

[CUniverse]

ONS released this data mid December.

Does it make any difference to how you feel about the way the pandemic was handled? Does it detract from the fears you have about Covid yourself?

Is it even worth knowing these figures?

www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19withnootherunderlyingcauses?s=08

My DS has an underlying health condition.
He’s 21 and it should in no way affect his longevity of life.

@PartyOnKale would be interesting to see that data with countries to compare.

Yeah, I'm not even sure if this data is significant or what it tells us. This is why I've put it on here. People were asking for it, so I guess it is significant for some.

You can do a rough and ready excess deaths calculation from the raw weekly ONS stats over the previous five years.

And of course there will have been excess deaths over the past two years - that's unfortunately inevitable during a pandemic with a novel virus that unfortunately is severe for the elderly and the vulnerable. That's why scientists worked hard to develop vaccines.

@BigWoollyJumpers

As age is not a pre-existing condition, nor is obesity, many of these deaths will included in these groups. Indeed the stats shown show the majority are 65+, and I would guess within that age range, most will be 80+.

DM died of Covid. She had no pre-existing conditions. She was 93.

Yes obesity is (clearly defined by ONS), along with many others. For example, this is one set copied and pasted from the dataset in the OP listed for people who died in one quarter:

Dementia and Alzheimer's disease
Diabetes
Hypertensive diseases
Chronic lower respiratory diseases
Symptoms signs and ill-defined conditions
Diseases of the urinary system
Ischaemic heart diseases
Heart failure and complications and ill-defined heart disease
Cardiac arrhythmias
Cerebrovascular diseases
Diseases of the musculoskeletal system and connective tissue
Parkinson's disease
Malignant neoplasms of lymphoid haematopoietic and related tissue
Malignant neoplasm of prostate
Nonrheumatic valve disorders
Pulmonary heart disease and diseases of pulmonary circulation
Pulmonary oedema and other intestinal pulmonary diseases
Malignant neoplasm of trachea bronchus and lung
Obesity
Cirrhosis and other diseases of liver
Records with pre-existing conditions, but none of the above

Notice the two I've bolded which effectively allow any other pre-existing condition not listed.

Do you realise how many people in the UK are obese or have high blood pressure, and therefore wouldn't be counted in these numbers?

@CUniverse , to make sense of that figure we need to understand what percentage of the population have an underlying condition, particularly over the age of 40 (I think it’s well understood that under 40s aren’t significantly affected). If high blood pressure is included then do I understand that could be as much as 50%, and is probably at least a minimum of 1 in 4? That’s a lot of people that you seem to be writing off as their deaths meaning less (including a good few of my loved ones who hopefully have many years left).

@BigWoollyJumpers

As age is not a pre-existing condition, nor is obesity, many of these deaths will included in these groups. Indeed the stats shown show the majority are 65+, and I would guess within that age range, most will be 80+.

DM died of Covid. She had no pre-existing conditions. She was 93.

Exactly and when you consider it this way, 17k in a population of 66 million in two years is not that many; not detracting from the loss of your mum but statistically.

Jeez, I’ve just looked at the list above, if obesity is included (given that’s between 25-30% of the population alone), you must be talking well well over 50% of the population.

@greensnail

Makes no difference to how I feel. Everyone I know who has died from covid (two close family members and other acquaintances) had underlying medical conditions. However, they were not at risk of dying from those conditions in the near future, it was covid that killed them.

This exactly. Too many people who are trying to minimise what has happened to people. Like old and fat are collateral. My friend died. He had no other conditions when he went into hospital. He was over 60 though so maybe that makes him worthless.

You can’t use statistics in this way. You don’t know the full story.

Ah another COVID minimising thread.

@CUniverse

1. These numbers are meaningless without a comparison to those who died with an underlying condition, and the full set of what these underlying conditions are (yes obesity is one)
2. people with mild underlying conditions like hypertension would've had many decades left of life
3. death is not the only outcome of a COVID infection - what about all those individuals left with long term complications & things which will significantly shorten their lifespan

If you don't care about COVID patients, what about all those who would've died due to non-COVID health emergencies which did not get adquate treatment due to saturation of healthcare?

Not sure if this is relevant but I despise it when people say 'well they died because they were old or had underlying health issues' almost
Like saying dying of covid was okay because they were old or had health issues.

They might have lived many more happy healthy lives if they didn't catch covid and died of it.

It makes diddly squat difference to me at all. I've had it and it was only mild, as I expected it to be. I never fell for the Fear Factor.

Don't think this thread is turning out the way you expected, is it, OP?

Not sure if this is relevant but I despise it when people say 'well they died because they were old or had underlying health issues' almost
Like saying dying of covid was okay because they were old or had health issues.

Of course every death is tragic. Ideally we'd save every single life. But the reality is that we unfortunately cannot prevent every death. We had restrictions in place, we quickly developed vaccines, we all made sacrifices. But unfortunately some people still died.

We've got to look at the costs (in terms of restrictions and the effects of those) and the benefits (saving an extra life). Unfortunately it's a trade off.

@Blubells

*Not sure if this is relevant but I despise it when people say 'well they died because they were old or had underlying health issues' almost Like saying dying of covid was okay because they were old or had health issues.*

Of course every death is tragic. Ideally we'd save every single life. But the reality is that we unfortunately cannot prevent every death. We had restrictions in place, we quickly developed vaccines, we all made sacrifices. But unfortunately some people still died.

We've got to look at the costs (in terms of restrictions and the effects of those) and the benefits (saving an extra life). Unfortunately it's a trade off.

People die of things that aren't COVID, when we let COVID patients overwhelm healthcare. This is the very basis of how an infectious disease affects everyone.

Low risk of COVID and so not worried during times of high cases? That's great but you're not immune to a ruptured apppendix which would require surgeons, anaesthetists and an ICU bed.

*People die of things that aren't COVID, when we let COVID patients overwhelm healthcare. This is the very basis of how an infectious disease affects everyone.

Low risk of COVID and so not worried during times of high cases? That's great but you're not immune to a ruptured apppendix which would require surgeons, anaesthetists and an ICU bed.*

I absolutely understand this. That's why we had restrictions in place to slow down and spread out the past few waves - to ensure not everyone gets ill at once.

But that wasn't really the point I had referred to earlier.

[quote CUniverse]@EducatingArti they list the pre existing conditions too.

Anyone know why having Diabetes makes the virus more severe? Admittedly I have not checked myself.[/quote]
I am diabetic, any infection raises blood sugar so your body has to work harder to fight the infection and diabetes at the same time.

I'm finding this conversation chilling, the implication is that people like me are worthless and should have just been left without protection is a horrible thought.

The one person I know who was in intensive care was a seriously obese man in his 60s who caught it because he was a keyworker, four of his colleagues died (three at the time and one from heart damage from the virus a few months later). Does he deserve less protection because of his weight?

I do think some restrictions were ott, my friend's dad died in April 2020 (not covid) and only one of his kids was allowed in for 15 minutes before he died which was just cruel. The fact that funerals were so restricted was also wrong.

Pandemics are shite, no matter what mitigations are put into place science can't always get one step ahead of nature until we have had a bit of time. I think the government were slow to act at first, although pushing the can down the road and i don't think chasing zero covid would have been realistic; absolutely international travel could have been halted sooner, we could have gone with the existing app rather than create a 'world beating' one which was delayed and ineffective, sending infected residents back to care homes was an absolute scandal. Home schooling wasn't well planned, neither were a host of other things, other countries that aren't as rich as us managed, we failed the exercise a few years back so arrogance that it wouldn't happen no doubt played a part. No it doesn't make me scared, I don't understand how those figures stack up with others to make a comparison, but I already know covid is crap and cruel.

@ollyollyoxenfree How can any of us minimise what has happened over the past 2 years?

This isn't the thread for arguments or baiting. Please go away if you have nothing else to add.

@Gingerkittykat Sorry In no way do I want to minimise any parts of the pandemic. It has been the strangest time we have lived through. For want of a better word. I just don't even know how I feel about it all, all I know is in these days, I am seriously affected by it all more than even at the start when it was all so frightening and unknown.

I just want to gage what people feel from stats like this. I didn't immediately have any reaction. I am interested in reading posts from people like yourself.

That would be around 0 02% of the population.

I think it confirms what we already know.

-For most people the illness is mild (although mild means you don't need hospital treatment, you can still be very ill with it before recovering).

• For the elderly and those with underlying health conditions the virus can be very serious.

Thank goodness for the vaccines and the vast majority of the population who have been fully vaccinated to protect the vulnerable.

@southeastdweller I actually had no expectations about how it would go. Zero.

Like I said, I don't even know what I feel about the numbers, hence why I asked others.

[quote CUniverse]@ollyollyoxenfree How can any of us minimise what has happened over the past 2 years?

This isn't the thread for arguments or baiting. Please go away if you have nothing else to add.[/quote]
Well you seem to ignore most of my post where I posed several points. Do any of these influence your opinon?

• deaths are not the only problematic outcome from infection - what about the huge numbers of those with long term complications or shortened lives?
• the fact that "underlying conditions" includes obesity and high blood pressure, meaning that the numbers you have presented do not include anyone with those conditions?

Op I don’t feel anything about them really

Maybe it’s common to not have a reaction at this point

They lack context which also makes it hard to react

@ollyollyoxenfree I ignored your points because I know exactly what you think you're doing and I find it bad taste.

I can't read anything productive you have to say when you start out with
Another COVID minimising thread" as though you know me. Your intention doesn't come across as an active contribution, instead you just want to bait me into some negative discourse.

As I mentioned, the pandemic is getting to me a bit more than it ever has, and I want to hear from people who genuinely want to answer the question. Thanks.

Remember, I didn't look for these statistics, I saw them posted elsewhere.

What stood out for me in these

2020: 9400 (0-64: 1549 / 65 and over: 7851)

2021 Q1: 6483 (0-64: 1560/ 65 and over: 4923)

2021 Q2: 346 (0-64: 153/ 65 and over: 193)

2021 Q3: 1142 (0-64: 512/ 65 and over: 630)

Is the stark difference between prevaccines (which is 2020 and 2021 Q1) and post. Vaccination clearly works at preventing serious illness and death.

Then the difference between Q2 (low numbers) and Q3 rise of Delta - but still how much less that is than at the Q1 peak of Alpha. And the ratio between the 0-64 is actually the same as 65+ since vaccinations occured.

So vaccines work and continue to work.

That the higher prevalence of COVID in society the higher these numbers will be.

We dont however know the impact of boosters or Omicron

[quote CUniverse]@ollyollyoxenfree I ignored your points because I know exactly what you think you're doing and I find it bad taste.

I can't read anything productive you have to say when you start out with
Another COVID minimising thread" as though you know me. Your intention doesn't come across as an active contribution, instead you just want to bait me into some negative discourse.

As I mentioned, the pandemic is getting to me a bit more than it ever has, and I want to hear from people who genuinely want to answer the question. Thanks.

Remember, I didn't look for these statistics, I saw them posted elsewhere.[/quote]
But these are important points

Yes, objectively the number you have shared may seem relatively low on first look, implying not many "healthy" people have not died due to COVID.

But does that fact that "underlying conditions" contain traits that are very common and not things you would consider serious, like high blood pressure, influence your thinking? Or the fact that death is not the only bad outcome from infection - what about the huge numbers left with long term complications or shortened lives?

You started the thread and asked for opinions!