17,731 total deaths from Covid in the UK with no other underlying health issues

[CUniverse]

ONS released this data mid December.

Does it make any difference to how you feel about the way the pandemic was handled? Does it detract from the fears you have about Covid yourself?

Is it even worth knowing these figures?

www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19withnootherunderlyingcauses?s=08

@ollyollyoxenfree Do you not understand what I wrote?

I have no thinking. I had no reaction. I didn't think anything. I have asked people (who all have different mindsets, experiences these past 2 years and analyse things differently) to see if I can work out what I maybe should be thinking or why the numbers could or could not be relevant. I was looking for influence, feelings and knowledge.

Typically I have something to stay about most things surrounding the pandemic. With this I didn't.

So far from what people have mentioned, the biggest thing that pops up in my mind is how many other peoples lives may have been lost beyond the total figure of 150000 people, and how many still stand to lose their lives as a direct results of the pandemic itself.

[quote CUniverse]@ollyollyoxenfree Do you not understand what I wrote?

I have no thinking. I had no reaction. I didn't think anything. I have asked people (who all have different mindsets, experiences these past 2 years and analyse things differently) to see if I can work out what I maybe should be thinking or why the numbers could or could not be relevant. I was looking for influence, feelings and knowledge.

Typically I have something to stay about most things surrounding the pandemic. With this I didn't.

So far from what people have mentioned, the biggest thing that pops up in my mind is how many other peoples lives may have been lost beyond the total figure of 150000 people, and how many still stand to lose their lives as a direct results of the pandemic itself.[/quote]
Do you not understand what I wrote?

No I actually don't think I do.

the biggest thing that pops up in my mind is how many other peoples lives may have been lost beyond the total figure of 150000 people,

Yes - but if the thread is about this why are you only quoting the number of people who died without a listed underlying condition like high blood pressure?

You say this thread is about "how many other people's lives may have been lost" so surely excluding this significant number is strange?

Firstly - your link gives the figures for England and Wales, not for the UK.

So let's use your figures -

as of 23/11/2021 (the date in your link) the England and Wales death toll was 144,137 (found by taking the UK total for that date and subtracting the figures from Scottish daily statement and a Belfast Telegraph article listing NI's numbers)

So, we've got 144,137 deaths, 17,731 of which didn't have any pre-existing conditions.

Which is just under 13.5%

For ease, let's round it down to 12.5% (also adjusts for the possibility a few had conditions that weren't apparent).

That's one in eight.

By your figures, one in eight people who have died of Covid were perfectly healthy.

So not only is the 'Ach, it only kills the ill and elderly, the ones who're knocking on deaths door' stance incredibly offensive, it's demonstrably not even close to being true.

disclaimer

I am more than happy to have any error with my maths/comprehension corrected here.

No other pre-existing conditions recorded which means they might have had something that wasn't diagnosed or they may have been perfectly fit and healthy.

Does anyone care anymore really? All those tosser politicians and civil servants would have had way more access to information that joe public ever would and you can see how they've acted. As such I'm out.

Kittensinthekitchen - the maths is fine

But the data itself is divided into the under 64s and the over 65s. To lump it together to then use it as an example of how it doesnt only kill the elderly without taking into account that 13,597 were over 65 (now I am not saying over 65 is old or that you would expect to die because I am not). But 77% of these deaths occured in the over 65s is a valid data point.

So for your maths to work you need to work out what percentage they are of the age brackets in terms of the overall amount. 1 in 8 doesnt actually work

And the effect that vaccines clearly have had in reducing it

Nope no difference at all. Some of these pre existing conditions could be very mild and let's face it as you age you pick up more of these conditions along the way.

I have asthma, a pre existing condition however I live a perfectly normal life. Looking at me you certainly wouldn’t know.

It makes people seem ‘other’, like their death doesn’t matter as much because they had a ‘pre existing condition.’ I’ll live a full life taking daily medication and I’d bet some of the people that died would have too.

@ollyollyoxenfree excluding what?? What are you on about?

I didn’t say it’s about how many peoples lives were lost. You’re draining me at this point.

@Quartz2208

Valid point, but the OP's thread was about the number of people with no underlying conditions vs the total death toll - they've not mentioned age or vaccinations at all in this discussion.

• By your figures, one in eight people who have died of Covid were perfectly healthy.

So not only is the 'Ach, it only kills the ill and elderly, the ones who're knocking on deaths door' stance incredibly offensive, it's demonstrably not even close to being true.*

@kittensinthekitchen

I have no stance. These are not my figures. Thank you for your contribution though.

FFS

[quote CUniverse]@ollyollyoxenfree excluding what?? What are you on about?

I didn’t say it’s about how many peoples lives were lost. You’re draining me at this point.[/quote]
eh? You literally said that is what the thread is about?

Your thread title is "17,731 total deaths from Covid in the UK with no other underlying health issues"

You then said "the biggest thing that pops up in my mind is how many other peoples lives may have been lost"

@CUniverse

Apologies, I should have been clearer. *From the figures you have posted...

What's the "FFS" for?

It pops in my mind because I didn’t even think about it when looking at these figures before until reading someone else’s comment. People talk about Covid deaths in some capacity or another only. It’s important to consider the amount of lives lost not only to the virus. In which case the toll exceeds the figures we see everyday in the media.

It’s not directly to do with my post, but a consideration I didn’t have initially, as I said, I didn’t have much thought when I expected I would.

I said the thread is about what people grasp from the figures on the ONS website.

@kittensinthekitchen because I’m getting a little antsy about yourself and another individual making this about what I think or my stance when I’ve clearly stated I don’t have one and I want to hear from other people.

There are a lot of people out there who would be considered ‘unhealthy’, often for no fault of their own. Autoimmune conditions such as type 1 diabetes cannot be prevented. There are a lot of people out there with type 1 who can expect to live a long and productive life. The majority of people who are classed as obese will also love long and productive lives. If we start to say that it’s OK for these people to die, to somehow make ourselves feel better about covid deaths, to make it something that happens to others, where does it stop?

And I think you’re right, OP, covid deaths are not the only deaths that have come about as a result of covid. We shout a lot about untreated cancer but surely a significant number of people could have prevented cancer by not smoking, not being over weight etc? So if those lives matter, why do we constantly see this ‘othering’ of people considered ‘unhealthy’ when it comes to covid? Either all our lives matter or it’s every man for himself.

[quote CUniverse]@kittensinthekitchen because I’m getting a little antsy about yourself and another individual making this about what I think or my stance when I’ve clearly stated I don’t have one and I want to hear from other people.[/quote]
Eh?

I just did the maths.

You asked what people thought, I wondered what the odds were, so calculated it and posted it on the thread in case anyone else was wondering the same thing.

Where have I even asked you what your stance is, let alone commented on it?

@Watapalava

i have never been afraid. The attitude i have towards covid now is the same as day 1 back in 2020 - people reaction was generally way ott and for some it still is.

Same

I've had it recently and it was vile tbh but I am still not scared of it and never will be

[quote kittensinthekitchen]@Quartz2208

Valid point, but the OP's thread was about the number of people with no underlying conditions vs the total death toll - they've not mentioned age or vaccinations at all in this discussion.[/quote]
Which is odd because the whole data set they have shown is exactly based on that!

@CUniverse what are you hoping to gain from this. This figures show 4 things:

1. Like most viruses it can get hit the young fit and healthy
2. It is far less likely to do so than it is to hit those over 65.
3. Vaccinations are a real game changer. And clearly has an effect on limiting it
4. Overall where we are now is not thankfully were we were in 2020

@kittensinthekitchen at the end of your post it looks like you were talking directly to me. The bit I highlighted. If not, then my apologies.

And the math was interesting. I might have to read it again though, my maths isn’t as good!

I expect to be flamed ... I don't believe that anyone age 85+ has "no pre-existing conditions". Most people in their 40s aren't in perfect health, never mind people age 70/80+. Maybe no diagnosis, but hardening of the arteries, hypertension, slow growing-malignant growths, leaky heart valves, reduced lung function, muscle-skeletal conditions / inflammatory conditions / immune system faults ... something that affected their resilience to Covid at least some of that is there by age 85 for everyone. Age 80+ (or 70+/50+, etc) was and still is the biggest risk factor for bad outcome from SARS-CoV-2 infection. Modern medicine is a miracle that reduces the burdens (morbidities) of old age extremely well normally.

I was always more afraid of the long-term "indirect harms" of the pandemic meaning the disruption to education, mental health, economic stability, civil liberty principles caused by the controls... than the short-term direct harms (death & morbidity). OP's information doesn't change how I feel or think. I accept I'm in the minority & most people wanted to prioritise differently.

No it doesn't worry me at all. It never has. What it does do is piss me off royally that we are still counting Covid deaths as a running total. Why, when there are so many more cancer and heart related deaths annually? Why aren't they a running total? Because then we all see how bloody obscene it all is.

@Aconight

No it doesn't worry me at all. It never has. What it does do is piss me off royally that we are still counting Covid deaths as a running total. Why, when there are so many more cancer and heart related deaths annually? Why aren't they a running total? Because then we all see how bloody obscene it all is.

That’s a good point

When do we get to stop the running total

@Aconight

Of course there are statistics for how many people die of types cancers each year. Why wouldn't there be?