5-11 vaccination

[LoudSnoringDog]

Is this age group highly likely to get the vaccine? I can see online that vulnerable children in this age group will but it's not clear as far as I can see re healthy children?

I predict this thread will soon will up with misinformation

I suspect that eventually it will be offered to this age group unless there is strong evidence to suggest it is not justified

I have a feelingbthe Government will come under pressure if EU countries, USA etc require it for travel.

Who knows. This government isn’t always predictable.

They will eventually almost certainly as other countries are way ahead with it & could potentially start requiring children to be vaxxed to enter the country. In New York, unvaxxed children over 5 cannot go into museums etc!

But we seem quite slow on vaxxing non adults. Lots of arguments both ways. But I think ultimately it should be a choice. Hopefully it will be at some point & quite helpfully, there should be plenty of data on safety from other countries by the time we get round too it!

It's the travel issue that I am most concerned about in all honesty.

As above, given places like the US won't allow entry to 11 year old who don't have 2 vaccines I suspect we will see it as an option over the next 12 months.

Given how poorly dd was (8 & immunosuppressed but not classed as CV) she will be having it once able.

Yes, I think it will definitely happen here soon.

I think so too. Given that virtually everywhere else is well into vaccinating 5+ age group, the UK will follow suit eventually as it did with the older teens and then the 11+ age group. I'm in Italy and all our open days are now for 5-11 year olds only. 11-18s are onto second doses and the older teens boosters.

@Fallagain

Who knows. This government isn’t always predictable.

It's not the government who decides.

We shouldn’t be offering it to young people for reasons of travel. We should be offering it to them if they need it and the benefits outweigh the risk. How many young children haven’t had omicron yet? Can we discuss natural immunity please?

Can we discuss children seeing their grandparents, please?

I have enough of feeling like a timebomb is ticking in my house. I have a fully vaccinated teen doing A levels, and

I hope so. Dd is 11 but in secondary school, she's a summer baby and I feel all the summer born year 7s are being put at risk. It's rife in her secondary school and I know it's only a matter of time before she succumbs to it. On the positive the take up of the vaccine in her school has been high. I just wish she could vaxed.

I am CV and my mum is CEV so I am really hoping they roll it out to under 12s soon.
My 14 year old only got his first dose yesterday because of having covid back in october.
Would have more peace of mind if they were both fully vaccinated.

I read an interesting article this am ,a published letter recording vaccinating children ,will try and copy/paste: "The letter has been signed by 12 scientists, medical experts and 21 peers and MPs including the former president of the Royal College of General Practitioners, a former government vaccine advisor, paediatricians and experts in infectious disease as well as 21 politicians and peers.

It argues the risk benefit calculations made by the JCVI and the Chief Medical Officer were based on "less than complete data on both the harms and the benefits of vaccinating children compared to the evidence now available."

It cites new evidence showing the risk of myocarditis in young men and boys is up to 14 times higher after vaccination than after infection.

And it states that given the high level of naturally acquired immunity from infection as well as the replacement of the Delta variant by milder Omicron, "it's crucial that, if we are to proceed with the mass double vaccination of healthy children, we are absolutely certain this policy will do more good than harm."

It states that the justification for vaccinating children was to provide "marginal benefits" of reducing time spent out of school due to covid infection but it cites new data showing that vaccines are no longer effective at preventing infection with Omicron.

It states: "Furthermore, the negligible risks of Covid infection to children have become even more nugatory if, as it appears, Omicron is associated with less severe disease, whereas the benefits of natural infection (rather than vaccination) in terms of longer lasting immunity are becoming more clear.".

And it concludes: "We urge the JCVI to review this new evidence and provide updated advice to the Government with regards to the mass vaccination of healthy 12-15 year olds."

Signatory Professor Brent Taylor, Professor Emeritus of Community Child Health, UCL Great Ormond Street Institute of Child Health, and former JCVI member said: "The JCVI made a very sensible and laudable recommendation when it advised the Government last September against the mass vaccination of healthy children against Covid-19. The Committee was rightly concerned about the unknown potential harms of the new vaccines, in particular myocarditis.

"Since the unfathomable decision of the CMO to go against that advice, second doses are now being offered to children despite further evidence of the potential harm of myocarditis, most worryingly the frequency, especially following the second dose. The latest CDC data reports elevated rates of post-vaccination myocarditis for boys aged 12-15, 2.5-24 times higher in the seven days after first dose and 24-228 times higher in the seven days after second dose.

"So, whilst the absolute risks are still low they cannot be described as trivial and the absolute risk from Covid-19 to healthy children is negligible. Additionally, the vaccines stop neither infection nor transmission and many children will have broad and robust natural immunity following infection. I'm afraid the mass vaccination of healthy children is not based on sound evidence. It is time for the JCVI, the CMO and the Government to reassess all the evidence now available and alter its recommendation accordingly."

Miriam Cates Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge, who also signed the letter, said: "Despite the fact that children are at almost no risk of harm from COVID, the harms of lockdowns and restrictions - such as lost education, missed opportunities and online harms - have placed an enormous burden on our young.

"When the decision was made to vaccinate healthy 12-15 year olds last September despite the JCVI's concerns about unknown harms, I was concerned that, yet again, we were not putting the best interests of our children first.

"With Omicron having become the dominant variant and much more data now available the situation has now changed. The JCVI should now have the opportunity to review the emerging evidence on the benefits and risks of child vaccinations and provide updated recommendations to Government.

"If we are to continue vaccinating our children against COVID we must be sure it is in their short and long-term interests and that we are doing more good than harm."

....not that I take what a politician says but I do heed Dr's and scientists who are or have been in positions of influence and the need to vaccinate children is not a universal belief amongst the medical profession, particularly for primary aged and younger. For those who do advocate vaccinating children , do you expect your child to be given annual Covid jabs for the whole of their lives or do you consider it a temporary thing until we reach endemic levels of Covid?

Article on the CDC decision that 12-17 year olds should have a booster here www.tctmd.com/news/cdc-extends-covid-19-boosters-adolescents-myocarditis-top-mind

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

I have a feelingbthe Government will come under pressure if EU countries, USA etc require it for travel.

This.

But take up in this age group in both the EU and US is low so that may mean its never required for international travel because of domestic political pressure.

Having said this there is still scope to require it for third party nationals or other non resident citizens (basically the EU or US say its ok for their own citizens not to have it but other national have to have it - at which point the UK has a diplomatic shit fit) which I don't rule out.

[quote herecomesthsun]Article on the CDC decision that 12-17 year olds should have a booster here www.tctmd.com/news/cdc-extends-covid-19-boosters-adolescents-myocarditis-top-mind[/quote]
the studies quoted in that article that are being used to justify boosters don't allay fears because a child who experiences myocarditis after the first dose would be unlikely to be offered a second dose, a child who experiences myocarditis after a second jab would be unlikely to be offered a booster....so those children who are susceptible to side effects (perhaps who have a underlying genetic susceptibility) are effectively being removed from the study data. Omicron is likely to be a game changer in terms of policy and as we are not currently following a policy of suppression, all healthy children are going to be exposed to it within a short space of time so the idea of vaccinating younger children will soon become a moot point.

[quote herecomesthsun]Article on the CDC decision that 12-17 year olds should have a booster here www.tctmd.com/news/cdc-extends-covid-19-boosters-adolescents-myocarditis-top-mind[/quote]
another quote from that article: "It’s currently unknown whether a booster dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine will increase either neutralizing antibody levels or vaccine effectiveness in adolescents ages 12 to 15, Oliver acknowledged, but she said “it’s likely to provide additional protection.”
do we really want ,in this country, to make clinical decisions without evidence of clinical effectiveness?? Boosting someone(even a child) who is vulnerable and at significant risk of death or serious illness on the basis of "likely" is acceptable and makes sense to me but not doing the same for otherwise healthy children.

s1 where is that article? Seems like some much needed common sense

Scotland is losing the plot

I think it's crazy to vaccinate healthy children, but my teens have had 1 vaccine now. I am really torn about whether it was a good idea, and would have preferred to have waited for more info.
I would really like to see data about risk and benefit for omicron vs vaccination for children who are not obese and have no immune related conditions.
I feel, as a parent, uninformed.

[quote cherin]I have enough of feeling like a timebomb is ticking in my house. I have a fully vaccinated teen doing A levels, and

@trumpisagit i don’t understand your comment “it’s crazy to vaccinate healthy children”. Everybody that gets the vaccine, child or adult, gets it to AVOID getting the disease (regardless of the vaccine we’re talking about). You vaccinate before they get sick. And you can’t vaccinate whilst they’re sick or soon after.
All of the vaccines we give our kids are given as preventive measure.
What I find crazy is that we vaccinate kids multiple times in the western world, whilst only 7% of Africa has one dose. That’s pretty shameful and we should all be furious with our collective government for thinking only of next elections and comparative performance instead of doing the right thing.
But NOT taking my vaccine - or my kids vaccine- is not going to magically let one dose appear in Burkina Faso, so…I will take my frustration at the voting station.
I am biased because I am eu, and in the eu most countries are offering vaccines to kids and they’ve started teens waaaaay earlier than here, to very good and enthusiastic uptake, at least amongst my friends. From what I read any virus can trigger an auto immune response in people (young people particularly) which can increase chances of developing type 1diabetes, arthritis spectrum, etc, in people with a genetic disposition, and if it was in my power to reduce the chances, I’d take the option

@trumpisagit

I think it's crazy to vaccinate healthy children, but my teens have had 1 vaccine now. I am really torn about whether it was a good idea, and would have preferred to have waited for more info. I would really like to see data about risk and benefit for omicron vs vaccination for children who are not obese and have no immune related conditions. I feel, as a parent, uninformed.

That's what a vaccine's for. We vaccinate the healthy to stop them getting sick. There is a lot of information out there about risk/benefit of vaccination /infection. A third dose in particular is relatively (cf 2 doses only) effective against being ill and risking hospitalisation from Omicron.