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Worried for my unvaccinated soon-to-be 18 year old

88 replies

AccessNoAreas · 02/01/2022 10:48

My DS has chosen not to be vaccinated. He and his CV dad both got Covid in August and came out the other side (my DD 14 and myself didn't catch it while living in the same small house).

Both my DH and I are now triple vaccinated - our DD was hesitant but consented and had her 1st before Xmas along with the flu vaccination.

My DS is an intelligent boy and has been on lots of sites researching vaccine types, efficacy and looking at the stats. He was happy with the JCVI's acknowledgement a few months back that
"At this time, JCVI is of the view that the health benefits of universal vaccination in children and young people below the age of 18 years do not outweigh the potential risks."

And he was worried by the incidences of clots and myocarditis in young males (even though he knows that the incidence of these conditions in someone who has a bad case of Covid is statistically higher and that they've stopped giving AZ to his age group to minimise the risk further)

We've had lively discussions in the house and he supports that the elderly and vulnerable should have the vaccine and is glad we are triple vaccinated. But he is getting increasingly upset and cross about the patronising ads being targeted at his age group that he concluded are basically saying, if you want any sort of social life, you need to get the vaccination.

He is 18 this month in a few weeks. The clubs are shut till after his birthday. He's getting increasingly depressed about it all. He has an overseas holiday booked for July to celebrate leaving school and is becoming resigned to getting vaccinated.

But my question is: Is it too late for him to ever be considered fully vaccinated now? If he has his first this month, he'll only be eligible for his second in April - and it seems that many people/countries now only consider 'fully vaccinated' to be having had the booster/3 doses. If that's the case, then he won't be that till July (and then for foreign travel you need to be 14 days post-your last vaccination) And there already seems to be a discussion about a 4th booster - what if by Spring you need to have had 4 vaccinations to be considered 'fully vaccinated'? Is it too late now? If he decides to reluctantly embark on this vaccine programme will he ever catch up?

And to make matters worse, his very talented music teacher (young, fit male, mid-20s)has just suffered an extreme reaction to his 2nd vaccine and has ended up in hospital with myocarditis and blood clots. Typical that my DS now has a very close and concrete example of an adverse vaccine reaction to use as 'evidence' of why he's reluctant to get it. It's also lessened my resolve when assuring him that adverse reactions are vanishingly rare. We are luckily not aware of anyone in our circle of family, school-friends, colleagues who have been made as poorly through Covid ( and I know this is just luck and that it has very badly impacted many people's lives and don't want to diminish this fact in any way).

But I am struggling with my DS and am sad for him and sympathetic. He says that being triple vaccinated doesn't seem to be diminishing the spread of the disease and when he looked at recent hospital statistics he pointed out the statistical manipulation that lumps those who are completely unvaccinated in with those that have only had 1 or 2 vaccines - this is giving a bigger demographic that can then be described as 'not fully vaccinated' and results in people being able to say that 80% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated (fully). He says, but Mum look at the near quarter of cases that ARE triple vaccinated and are in hospital - this is almost equal to the 23% of hospital admissions that are totally unvaccinated. (It doesn't help that he's hoping to do economics at Uni and is therefore interested in, and studying statistics and their analysis.)

And what about Uni? Will they insist on a 'fully vaccinated' status to be on campus? Does anyone have any experience of this?

And finally, will he be able to go abroad without being vaccinated as long as he carries out official PCR tests to prove a negative result and then continues to test during the holiday to prove a negative result every 48/72 hours? I know this would be horrendously expensive if he wants to travel for anything longer than a week which is another incentive to become that elusive thing of 'fully vaccinated'.

I'm genuinely in need of advice here. If I'm to persuade him to get the vaccine I need to be strong in my arguments.

OP posts:
Porcupineintherough · 02/01/2022 11:06

Honestly, it's not your job to convince him. He's resentful of all the messaging pushed his way, he's suspicious, you'll just make it worse. Disengage and tell him to make his own choices (and live with them).

KenDodd · 02/01/2022 11:16

Agree with poster above, leave him to it.
With regard going abroad, that is 100% out of our hands anyway, other countries can demand whatever entry requirements they want, we don't even have any influence over EU rules anymore.

BeMoreGoldfish · 02/01/2022 11:19

The fact that he’s read lots of stuff on the internet doesn’t mean he’s fully informed unfortunately - there’s an awful lot of shit out there sadly.

Nothing you can do ultimately. His choice.

Aquamarine1029 · 02/01/2022 11:20

I'm genuinely in need of advice here. If I'm to persuade him to get the vaccine I need to be strong in my arguments.

Leave the kid alone, FFS. This is his decision and his alone. Your son doesn't sound like some daft teen, he's weighing things carefully and taking time to make the best decision for himself. Stop bullying him.

Blubells · 02/01/2022 11:21

Disengage and tell him to make his own choices

What a heartless suggestion? Shock

Op, it's a difficult decision, especially as things change so quickly. I know several teens who are unvaccinated. It's not a problem for schools or Universities. There's no requirement to be vaccinated.

In terms of travelling, it gets more tricky especially as things change so quickly. Don't many countries allow a negative PCR test instead of vaccination? We just don't know how things will look by the summer? Perhaps many countries will be over the Omicron wave and removed most restrictions?

ItsSnowJokes · 02/01/2022 11:29

It is unlikely uni will insist on full vaccination status but who knows come September. He has to stand by his decision and with that decision he won't be able to do certain things, like go abroad on holiday etc...... these things are not a right, and he will have to abide by the rules of that country when he wants to travel.

I would leave him to it like others have said, he's 18, he can make his own mind up, and live with the choice he has made.

user1493494961 · 02/01/2022 11:49

Leave him to it, countries will have their own rules regarding travel, he'll have to find out what they are at the time.

Xmasgetaway · 02/01/2022 11:54

I think he sounds sensible. At 18 years old with no health issues it’s ridiculous for him to get the vaccine unless he wants to travel. He’s already had the virus, so will have antibodies now also.

DrWhoNowww · 02/01/2022 12:03

What PP have said.

Stop trying to persuade him if he’s already suspicious of the messages he is being given.

Ultimately at 18 he’s legally an adult and it’s his decision which he will have to stand by - if it stops him doing things he wants to do then so be it. And if he gets vaxxed just to be able to go on holiday then does it really matter if that’s his reason?

Re uni - they aren’t asking for vaccination status yet but who knows by September, same with workplaces - most workplaces I know have asked employees to provide them (“voluntarily”) with their vaxx status, most (apart from the NHS) haven’t done anything with that but again who knows - you could find in 12 months time you can’t work in any customer facing role without being vaxxed.

They’ve also dropped the gap between vaccines so he can catch up if he wants to.

CoalTit · 02/01/2022 12:08

It doesn't help that he's hoping to do economics at Uni and is therefore interested in, and studying statistics and their analysis.
It doesn't help your attempts to persuade him, no, but it's a marvellous tool for him to resist all sorts of propaganda and manipulation. In your shoes I'd be delighted with myself for producing such a sensible person.

Boosterquery · 02/01/2022 12:13

With regard to the overseas holiday that he has already booked, I think your son should research what (if any) the current vaccination requirements are for that country. He also needs to bear in mind the possibility that vaccination requirements could change at the last minute making it impossible for him to take the holiday. He then needs to decide which is more important to him out of (a) making sure that he is not prevented from taking the holiday due to failure to meet the vaccination requirements, and (b) choosing to remain unvaccinated.

RachC2021 · 02/01/2022 12:16

“ what if by Spring you need to have had 4 vaccinations to be considered 'fully vaccinated'? ”

That won’t happen for the U.K. since we’re not even saying, or rather not enforcing, primary course plus booster (3 for lost people) is necessary to be considered fully vaccinated. Yet. They said they’d bring that in once everyone has had a chance to be boosted — which won’t be before February at least. My gut feeling is not before April. He has time to catch up, should he choose to.

“ He says, but Mum look at the near quarter of cases that ARE triple vaccinated and are in hospital - this is almost equal to the 23% of hospital admissions that are totally unvaccinated. ”

This requires a more detailed look at the stats, as Covid-19 doesn’t affect everyone equally. I don’t know the answer so he’ll need to dig, but: what is the age range of the 25% “unvaccinated” and 25% fully vaccinated in those stats? If the unvaccinated ones are all 25 and under and the triple 70+, then as the virus affects the old more, those stats actually argue in favour of the vaccine.

CaiforniaDrumming · 02/01/2022 12:22

I also have a 17-year-old who is stats minded and is going to be doing economics in uni. He's double vaxxed. Honestly, if he wants to travel abroad, but doesn't want to be vaxxed, he has to resign himself to being "depressed." He can catch up but it looks like he doesn't want to be vaxxed. In which case leave him to it and let him deal with the consequences.

AnotherMansCause · 02/01/2022 12:25

He's an adult & wants to be treated as such, he needs to act like one. That means not expecting you to sort out his holiday plans if/when they are scuppered by his vaccine status.

LilyPond2 · 02/01/2022 12:54

Re your question about travelling abroad, different countries have different rules, so no one is going to be able to give you a generic answer about whether frequent testing can be used as a substitute for meeting vaccination requirements. There are certainly some countries that have barred all entry to foreign holidaymakers unless they are vaccinated. Different countries also have different rules about what constitutes "fully vaccinated", so if you want advice about the requirements for your son's foreign holiday, you need to name the country (while bearing in mind that the rules could change between now and his departure date).

Cookerhood · 02/01/2022 13:40

Blood clots aren't a side effect of the mRNA vaccines so his music teacher seems a little unfortunate there. Presumably the clots & the myocarditis were easily treated.
It's his choice though. What about the aspect of protecting his father? That's why mine have all been keen to be vaccinated.

Brunilde · 02/01/2022 13:46

If he was so concerned about the side affects he wouldn't have it to protect the population as a whole, what's changed that he is no longer concerned enough now he wants to go on holiday?

And if he had fully considered his choice he would have weighed up all sides including what impact not taking the vaccine would have on him. So if he clearly didn't consider it as well as you think.

Narutocrazyfox · 02/01/2022 13:52

Leave him alone. His analysis seems fairly sound, and he's an adult.

VioletVesper · 02/01/2022 14:00

I think you should respect his decision.

Drunkpanda · 02/01/2022 14:06

If having a vulnerable dad isn't enough to persuade him, nothing will

Serenschintte · 02/01/2022 14:14
  1. you should respect his decision
  2. his risk at 18 is extremely low
  3. I also know someone who was very badly vaccine injured. It too made me very wary of being vaccinated because it was dreadful to see my friend in such a state - she is still ill. And there is little help from government/vaccine companies
llantwitminor · 02/01/2022 14:16

The period of time between doses has been reduced, so if your DS gets the first one this week, 24 weeks from now if 12 weeks between is in June I think.

I can imagine the country of his planned holiday might not accept him otherwise.

MsMartini · 02/01/2022 14:32

But you can't compare the groups like that. Look at the proportion of the population who are triple-jabbed compared with those that are unvaccinated - the difference is huge.
coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

And here is the latest analysis (31 Dec, from UKHSA) about efficacy vs Omicron.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1044481/Technical-Briefing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf

"The risk of being admitted to hospital for Omicron cases was lower for those who had received 2 doses of a vaccine (65% lower) compared to those who had not received any vaccination (Table 4). The risk of being admitted to hospital for Omicron cases was lower still among those
who had received 3 doses of vaccine (81% lower)."

He is at very low risk either way and I am not commenting on his decision, but the vaccination status stats need interpreting and quoting carefully, or it can lead to misinformation.

Another example is here www.ntu.ac.uk/about-us/news/news-articles/2021/11/in-the-wrong-hands,-vaccination-statistics-can-prove-deadly-simpsons-paradox-shows-why.

Dontforgetyourbrolly · 02/01/2022 14:36

Why do you need to convince him? He sounds sensible enough to make his own decisions.

Luredbyapomegranate · 02/01/2022 14:41

I’d leave him to it. He’ll figure it out.

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