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Worried for my unvaccinated soon-to-be 18 year old

88 replies

AccessNoAreas · 02/01/2022 10:48

My DS has chosen not to be vaccinated. He and his CV dad both got Covid in August and came out the other side (my DD 14 and myself didn't catch it while living in the same small house).

Both my DH and I are now triple vaccinated - our DD was hesitant but consented and had her 1st before Xmas along with the flu vaccination.

My DS is an intelligent boy and has been on lots of sites researching vaccine types, efficacy and looking at the stats. He was happy with the JCVI's acknowledgement a few months back that
"At this time, JCVI is of the view that the health benefits of universal vaccination in children and young people below the age of 18 years do not outweigh the potential risks."

And he was worried by the incidences of clots and myocarditis in young males (even though he knows that the incidence of these conditions in someone who has a bad case of Covid is statistically higher and that they've stopped giving AZ to his age group to minimise the risk further)

We've had lively discussions in the house and he supports that the elderly and vulnerable should have the vaccine and is glad we are triple vaccinated. But he is getting increasingly upset and cross about the patronising ads being targeted at his age group that he concluded are basically saying, if you want any sort of social life, you need to get the vaccination.

He is 18 this month in a few weeks. The clubs are shut till after his birthday. He's getting increasingly depressed about it all. He has an overseas holiday booked for July to celebrate leaving school and is becoming resigned to getting vaccinated.

But my question is: Is it too late for him to ever be considered fully vaccinated now? If he has his first this month, he'll only be eligible for his second in April - and it seems that many people/countries now only consider 'fully vaccinated' to be having had the booster/3 doses. If that's the case, then he won't be that till July (and then for foreign travel you need to be 14 days post-your last vaccination) And there already seems to be a discussion about a 4th booster - what if by Spring you need to have had 4 vaccinations to be considered 'fully vaccinated'? Is it too late now? If he decides to reluctantly embark on this vaccine programme will he ever catch up?

And to make matters worse, his very talented music teacher (young, fit male, mid-20s)has just suffered an extreme reaction to his 2nd vaccine and has ended up in hospital with myocarditis and blood clots. Typical that my DS now has a very close and concrete example of an adverse vaccine reaction to use as 'evidence' of why he's reluctant to get it. It's also lessened my resolve when assuring him that adverse reactions are vanishingly rare. We are luckily not aware of anyone in our circle of family, school-friends, colleagues who have been made as poorly through Covid ( and I know this is just luck and that it has very badly impacted many people's lives and don't want to diminish this fact in any way).

But I am struggling with my DS and am sad for him and sympathetic. He says that being triple vaccinated doesn't seem to be diminishing the spread of the disease and when he looked at recent hospital statistics he pointed out the statistical manipulation that lumps those who are completely unvaccinated in with those that have only had 1 or 2 vaccines - this is giving a bigger demographic that can then be described as 'not fully vaccinated' and results in people being able to say that 80% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated (fully). He says, but Mum look at the near quarter of cases that ARE triple vaccinated and are in hospital - this is almost equal to the 23% of hospital admissions that are totally unvaccinated. (It doesn't help that he's hoping to do economics at Uni and is therefore interested in, and studying statistics and their analysis.)

And what about Uni? Will they insist on a 'fully vaccinated' status to be on campus? Does anyone have any experience of this?

And finally, will he be able to go abroad without being vaccinated as long as he carries out official PCR tests to prove a negative result and then continues to test during the holiday to prove a negative result every 48/72 hours? I know this would be horrendously expensive if he wants to travel for anything longer than a week which is another incentive to become that elusive thing of 'fully vaccinated'.

I'm genuinely in need of advice here. If I'm to persuade him to get the vaccine I need to be strong in my arguments.

OP posts:
Kittykelly123 · 02/01/2022 18:19

I had a comment removed from this group for breaking the rules. I have to say this is disappointing as I did not say anything controversial or scientific. Weird.

Notthissticky · 02/01/2022 18:22

If he's that interested in statistics he should know that non-vaxxed and triple vaxxed making up similar proportions of the hospital population does not mean that you're equally likely to end up in hospital; there are vastly more triple vaxxed than unvaxxed people, so these stats show that you are indeed far less likely to be hospitalised if you're triple vaxxed.

I wouldn't try to persuade him, I'd just make sure he's aware of all the issues you've raised here. Better late than never for the jab I'd say, i.e. it's still worth getting it now even if it is too late to salvage his holiday

SageRosemary · 02/01/2022 18:32

He may be able to travel without a vaccine, or he may not, things change very rapidly with Covid and who can say which country may suddenly refuse entry to unvaccinated tourists. USA requires vaccination and proof of negative test. Independent testing adds significantly to the cost of travel. For travel to Europe, the cost of testing may be higher than the cost of the air fare.

Some countries require you to have proof of vaccination (EU Digital Covid Certificate or similar) to do the simplest, most everyday things. So, in Ireland to enjoy a cup of coffee, a pint, or a meal INDOORS in a restaurant or pub, you will need your Digital Cert and ID (passport/driving licence). You will also need it to go to the gym, theatre, cinema, nightclubs, concerts etc. So, it depends how attractive a holiday would be to your DS if he is unable to participate in these activities. Some of these measures have been the driving force for young people to take up the vaccine, the gym was the straw that broke the camel's back for a family member, he capitulated and got his vaccines.

kittensinthekitchen · 02/01/2022 19:00

@Kittykelly123

I had a comment removed from this group for breaking the rules. I have to say this is disappointing as I did not say anything controversial or scientific. Weird.
Was it more Yeadon OMIRCRON pish?
cptartapp · 02/01/2022 19:04

He hasn't thought it through, although his choice of course.
My 18 year old nephew has also declined. I don't think he's realised that in March when he turns 18.5, as he's unvaccinated he'll have to self isolate for ten days every time he's a close contact of a positive case. That should be fun in the run up to his A levels next summer.

JaninaDuszejko · 02/01/2022 19:13
There are two exclamation marks in the first paragraph. No need to read any further, it's clearly not based on any science.
SeasonFinale · 02/01/2022 19:14

His research on Facebook will soon go to pit once he realises he won't be able to socialise with his mates.

Alexandra2001 · 02/01/2022 20:23

@Kittykelly123

TBH the tests are not fit for purpose- the world health organisation even has this information on their website. It’s possible he has not had it once. There are very robust studies (peer reviewed) showing that reinfection is virtually zero.
...that PCR's are not accurate? really.
1dayatatime · 02/01/2022 20:24

@titchy

"But if all he's bothered about is the possibility of not having a covid passport for travel next summer, then he can either have the first jab, and hope the second and booster are in time if required, or not bother."

+++

Given that Germany and France have banned UK visitors completely regardless of vaccine status, whether he does or does not have the vaccine makes no difference.

Spain is currently reviewing if it will take the same position as France and Germany.

titchy · 02/01/2022 20:32

[quote 1dayatatime]@titchy

"But if all he's bothered about is the possibility of not having a covid passport for travel next summer, then he can either have the first jab, and hope the second and booster are in time if required, or not bother."

+++

Given that Germany and France have banned UK visitors completely regardless of vaccine status, whether he does or does not have the vaccine makes no difference.

Spain is currently reviewing if it will take the same position as France and Germany.[/quote]
That's unlikely to be the position in the summer though. So he either gives himself a chance of being able to travel, or doesn't.

If he doesn't and his fully vaxxed mates are all able to go on a post A level holiday in August he'll be kicking himself.

Seems silly to categorically rule that out now.

Mycatsgoldtooth · 02/01/2022 20:33

How would you feel if you persuaded him and he had an adverse reaction? Would you think it would be worth it for a holiday? Side effects are rare but they do happen. I’m vaxed but I now know two people (Dbro & Sil - not married to each other) hospitalised with side effects from jabs. Both of them under 30 who had got through Covid previously with hardly any symptoms. Sil is 19 and it’s left her needing MRIs and feeling really weak. She’s been so upset about the possibility of needing a booster to take part in life when it could jeopardise her health again. Not an easy choice.

hamstersarse · 02/01/2022 20:45

@SeasonFinale

His research on Facebook will soon go to pit once he realises he won't be able to socialise with his mates.
What does that even mean?!?
BeMoreGoldfish · 02/01/2022 20:52

@hamstersarse that he’ll ignore the “research” when he wants to travel I guess is what it means? 🤷‍♀️

Katieandthekids · 03/01/2022 08:03

He's 18 he won't get seriously ill. It will impact what he can do. Which I think is awful. I'd be proud he took a stand. He can still use lateral flow reporting to go out etc.

Blubells · 03/01/2022 08:31

I wonder how long travel restrictions will stay in place? If Omicron is indeed milder and countries increasingly drop restrictions...

Also as the current vaccines only last 10 weeks, you'd have to be boostered regularly to remain 'fully vaccinated'?!

CovidCorvid · 03/01/2022 08:39

I agree, don’t try and persuade him. He can make an informed choice. He needs to accept if he doesn’t get jabbed he may not be able to go on holiday or go to nightclubs (if they increase their rules in the future).

BeMoreGoldfish · 03/01/2022 09:05

@Katieandthekids I agree it’s his choice but proud??? Why on Earth would you feel proud of him. He’s not fighting for world peace he’s refusing a vaccine Hmm.

Katieandthekids · 03/01/2022 12:31

[quote BeMoreGoldfish]@Katieandthekids I agree it’s his choice but proud??? Why on Earth would you feel proud of him. He’s not fighting for world peace he’s refusing a vaccine Hmm.[/quote]
Because although I believe everyone should have the vaccine I do not believe anyone should ever ever be forced to put something they don't want in their body. It literally doesn't affect anyone else. The whole idea that being vaccinated protects others is a load of rubbish. You still catch it, still pass it on...

Katieandthekids · 03/01/2022 12:34

[quote BeMoreGoldfish]@Katieandthekids I agree it’s his choice but proud??? Why on Earth would you feel proud of him. He’s not fighting for world peace he’s refusing a vaccine Hmm.[/quote]
Also can you only be proud of someone if they are fighting for world peace?

wonderstuff · 03/01/2022 12:39

Not read the whole thread, apologies if I’m repeating others.

Holiday insurance will only cover him for Covid if he has ‘taken vaccines recommended in your country’ there will probably be places he can go without a vaccine, I’ve only researched the US and as an adult you would need two doses to travel there. But anytime his travel is disrupted by him testing positive he would need to self-fund the effects of that.

Cookerhood · 03/01/2022 12:41

The whole idea that being vaccinated protects others is a load of rubbish. You still catch it, still pass it on...
This tired old chestnut. It reduces the chances of getting it & passing it on.

wonderstuff · 03/01/2022 12:47

@middleager

My 15 year old was only eligible for his first vaccination 2 weeks ago, as he had Covid at the end of Sept and children have to wait 12 weeks after Covid before the vaccination.

So what happens to all the teens who get Covid and that delays jabs? There must be loads who won't therefore be triple jabbed by summer?

Most countries are saying that under 18s aren’t required to have full vaccination if travelling with vaccinated adults, not all though, in the US there are different rules in different states.
ArmChairQueen · 03/01/2022 12:54

@AccessNoAreas I personally share your concern about what constitutes fully vaccinated and the imminent moving of goal posts with regard for this. And to my mind, it will do nothing to persuade the vaccine hesitant (which included myself- double vaccinated months after my peers).

My view is that anyone who has had at least one vaccine should count as fully vaccinated ( for domestic purposes) for the 8 weeks or whatever until their next vaccine can be given. If you move the goal posts moths and months into the future then this will make vaccine hesitant people feel like they can never catch up and they will probably disengage further.

ArmChairQueen · 03/01/2022 12:55

And part of my reason for saying this ^is that incentives work better than punishment, if we really want to improve vaccine take up.

BeMoreGoldfish · 03/01/2022 12:56

@Katieandthekids of course there’s lots of things you can be proud of - refusing to take a vaccine just isn’t one!

And please look at the stats for vaccines and transmission - you are far less likely to catch it, far less likely to get sick, far less likely to pass it on, to end up in hospital, to end up in ICU. These are all statistical facts. I know this disappoints the anti vaxxers but just because you don’t believe something doesn’t stop it being a fact.