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Worried for my unvaccinated soon-to-be 18 year old

88 replies

AccessNoAreas · 02/01/2022 10:48

My DS has chosen not to be vaccinated. He and his CV dad both got Covid in August and came out the other side (my DD 14 and myself didn't catch it while living in the same small house).

Both my DH and I are now triple vaccinated - our DD was hesitant but consented and had her 1st before Xmas along with the flu vaccination.

My DS is an intelligent boy and has been on lots of sites researching vaccine types, efficacy and looking at the stats. He was happy with the JCVI's acknowledgement a few months back that
"At this time, JCVI is of the view that the health benefits of universal vaccination in children and young people below the age of 18 years do not outweigh the potential risks."

And he was worried by the incidences of clots and myocarditis in young males (even though he knows that the incidence of these conditions in someone who has a bad case of Covid is statistically higher and that they've stopped giving AZ to his age group to minimise the risk further)

We've had lively discussions in the house and he supports that the elderly and vulnerable should have the vaccine and is glad we are triple vaccinated. But he is getting increasingly upset and cross about the patronising ads being targeted at his age group that he concluded are basically saying, if you want any sort of social life, you need to get the vaccination.

He is 18 this month in a few weeks. The clubs are shut till after his birthday. He's getting increasingly depressed about it all. He has an overseas holiday booked for July to celebrate leaving school and is becoming resigned to getting vaccinated.

But my question is: Is it too late for him to ever be considered fully vaccinated now? If he has his first this month, he'll only be eligible for his second in April - and it seems that many people/countries now only consider 'fully vaccinated' to be having had the booster/3 doses. If that's the case, then he won't be that till July (and then for foreign travel you need to be 14 days post-your last vaccination) And there already seems to be a discussion about a 4th booster - what if by Spring you need to have had 4 vaccinations to be considered 'fully vaccinated'? Is it too late now? If he decides to reluctantly embark on this vaccine programme will he ever catch up?

And to make matters worse, his very talented music teacher (young, fit male, mid-20s)has just suffered an extreme reaction to his 2nd vaccine and has ended up in hospital with myocarditis and blood clots. Typical that my DS now has a very close and concrete example of an adverse vaccine reaction to use as 'evidence' of why he's reluctant to get it. It's also lessened my resolve when assuring him that adverse reactions are vanishingly rare. We are luckily not aware of anyone in our circle of family, school-friends, colleagues who have been made as poorly through Covid ( and I know this is just luck and that it has very badly impacted many people's lives and don't want to diminish this fact in any way).

But I am struggling with my DS and am sad for him and sympathetic. He says that being triple vaccinated doesn't seem to be diminishing the spread of the disease and when he looked at recent hospital statistics he pointed out the statistical manipulation that lumps those who are completely unvaccinated in with those that have only had 1 or 2 vaccines - this is giving a bigger demographic that can then be described as 'not fully vaccinated' and results in people being able to say that 80% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated (fully). He says, but Mum look at the near quarter of cases that ARE triple vaccinated and are in hospital - this is almost equal to the 23% of hospital admissions that are totally unvaccinated. (It doesn't help that he's hoping to do economics at Uni and is therefore interested in, and studying statistics and their analysis.)

And what about Uni? Will they insist on a 'fully vaccinated' status to be on campus? Does anyone have any experience of this?

And finally, will he be able to go abroad without being vaccinated as long as he carries out official PCR tests to prove a negative result and then continues to test during the holiday to prove a negative result every 48/72 hours? I know this would be horrendously expensive if he wants to travel for anything longer than a week which is another incentive to become that elusive thing of 'fully vaccinated'.

I'm genuinely in need of advice here. If I'm to persuade him to get the vaccine I need to be strong in my arguments.

OP posts:
Katieandthekids · 03/01/2022 13:09

[quote BeMoreGoldfish]@Katieandthekids of course there’s lots of things you can be proud of - refusing to take a vaccine just isn’t one!

And please look at the stats for vaccines and transmission - you are far less likely to catch it, far less likely to get sick, far less likely to pass it on, to end up in hospital, to end up in ICU. These are all statistical facts. I know this disappoints the anti vaxxers but just because you don’t believe something doesn’t stop it being a fact.[/quote]
I'm not an anti vaxxer. I've had both my vaccines while pregnant even though I felt largely pressured socially into doing it. I also have a problem with people not wanting the Covid vaccine being lumped in with general anti vaxxers.

Perhaps we both need to go away and do more research into other peoples POV.

Katieandthekids · 03/01/2022 13:13

[quote BeMoreGoldfish]@Katieandthekids of course there’s lots of things you can be proud of - refusing to take a vaccine just isn’t one!

And please look at the stats for vaccines and transmission - you are far less likely to catch it, far less likely to get sick, far less likely to pass it on, to end up in hospital, to end up in ICU. These are all statistical facts. I know this disappoints the anti vaxxers but just because you don’t believe something doesn’t stop it being a fact.[/quote]
My story: I had a huge bleed 2 days after my second vaccine at 7 months pregnant. Baby was fine. Bleed unexplained. Any HCP I mention the vaccine to have basically told me to shut up about it.

Baby is due in 3 weeks. I will then have my booster.

This kid is 18 he is exercising his right to choose not following a crowd. Personally I would be proud of that in my children but I'm not saying you have to be proud!

WhiteJellycat · 03/01/2022 13:18

He is 18. A adult. His body his choice. Me and dh are triple vaxxed. Ds 18 is double. Ds14 refuses and I have never argued with him about it. He told me his research and reasons and I respected that.

I'm a biology graduate. But it's not my choice to make for them.

Tournaments66 · 03/01/2022 13:22

It's really not likely universities will insist on full vaccinations and besides what does full mean? The bar will keep changing. I feel for your son. You don't have to agree with his decision but you should show him he has the right to make up his own mind.

1dayatatime · 03/01/2022 16:55

@Cookerhood

The whole idea that being vaccinated protects others is a load of rubbish. You still catch it, still pass it on... This tired old chestnut. It reduces the chances of getting it & passing it on.
Depends on your definition of vaccinated. Being double jabbed gives between 0 to 20% protection (depending on how recent the second jab was) against symptomatic infection for omicron. Whereas a booster jab gives a 50 to 80% protection against symptomatic infection.

Source:

The Imperial College London COVID-19 response team estimated that the risk of reinfection with the omicron variant is 5.4 times the reinfection risk of the delta variant, based on PCR-confirmed cases in England between late November and Dec. 11. The study, which hasn’t been peer-reviewed, estimated vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic infection after two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech or AstraZeneca vaccine would be between 0% and 20%. The study estimated 55% to 80% protection against symptomatic infection after a third booster .

Soontobe60 · 03/01/2022 16:57

@Xmasgetaway

I think he sounds sensible. At 18 years old with no health issues it’s ridiculous for him to get the vaccine unless he wants to travel. He’s already had the virus, so will have antibodies now also.
You do know that this isn’t how things work, don’t you? People get flu many times. Having it once doesn’t make you immune from getting it again.
Soontobe60 · 03/01/2022 17:00

OP, this is a great way of him learning that his actions (or in this case lack of actions) have consequences.
Whether he agrees with the vaccines, believes we shouldn’t have travel curtailed or entry to nightclubs refused on the basis of vaccine status is actually irrelevant. He can choose to remain vaccine free and not travel, or have the vaccines and be free to travel.

Blubells · 03/01/2022 18:20

Having it once doesn’t make you immune from getting it again.

That's not correct!

Having omicron does seem to offer protection not only against omicron but even delta. How long for remains to be seen.

Walkaround · 03/01/2022 18:33

Tbh, your ds sounds like the patronising one if he assumed decision makers who want him vaccinated before he visits their countries would have come round to his way of thinking in time for him to travel when he wanted to. His risk assessment neither matches the risk assessments of the countries he wants to visit, nor even the risk assessment of the country he lives in - it’s as simple as that, nothing patronising about it. So if his decision was based purely on risk assessments, not some grand hill of civil liberties he was willing to die on, then he’s going to have to reassess the risks, as he is now realising the risk of not being allowed to travel is and always was more important to him than the risk of vaccination. There is a risk he is already too late to get sufficiently vaccinated in time for July, there is also a risk he gets vaccinated and it turns out this no longer matters for travel by July. As with the last time he decided, there are a variety of risks he needs to take into account. Tbh, going against official advice was always a bit of a stupid risk if travel was important to him, so he needs to own that when reassessing what is most important to him and what to do next, rather than arguing he is being patronised. Only he can decide what risks he is willing to take.

Cookerhood · 03/01/2022 18:49

If he had Covid in August that would be delta,which does not seem to give much protection against Omicron.

AccessNoAreas · 04/01/2022 10:21

Thanks everyone. I know he's got to make up his own mind but I will continue to talk to him about it. Thanks to those that acknowledge that whilst technically he's about to become an adult, he's arriving there after a shit 2 years of badly compromised education, periods of social isolation and restrictions on behaviours and 'normal' teenage experiences.

I've not/am not 'bullying' him about this. His Dad is completely supportive of him not being vaccinated and does not want him making decisions based on his own health situation (he's taken all the vaccines he can and will be prioritised for the new treatments should he get Covid again). But his Dad also believes that he just needs to realise the consequences of any personal decision ie. Restricted freedoms and live with it.

I hope he gets to go on holiday. He needs it for his mental health. He needs to assess his priorities and make a decision.

I want to thank those who elaborated on the 'statistical' factors. Maths has never been my strong point but the posts of 1dayatatime and JM901928 and Bluebell have been very helpful. Not so helpful was the poster who criticised my 17 year old for lacking knowledge of base rate fallacy and for not 'giving a shit' about his Dad.

I've not delved into the vaccine issue on MN before (and I've been on here under other usernames for 14 years). It's pretty brutal isn't it?! But then it's been a brutal, disruptive, stressful period in history. Hope we're reaching some sort of liveable accommodation with this virus soon.

OP posts:
zafferana · 04/01/2022 10:25

If he wants to go on holiday and go into nightclubs, he'll need to be vaccinated and I suspect that once he sees all his friends going off and doing these things he'll just go and get vaccinated himself, because the FOMO will be too great!

By all means, keep talking to him, but it IS his decision and if you browbeat him with arguments for vaccination I doubt it's going to make much difference at this point. What will make a difference is missing out, because he's unvaccinated, so I'd be tempted to just let that happen naturally.

1dayatatime · 04/01/2022 14:07

@AccessNoAreas

Thank you and I'm glad somebody finally found something I posted useful 🤣.

Lastly though I would strongly advise your DS to stay well away from base jumping!

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