15 yr old doesn't want the vaccine.

[legohurts16]

My 15 yr old DD does not want the covid vaccine. She doesn't think the benefits outweigh the risks. She is very mature and has read up on the subject and is adamant that at the moment she doesn't want it.

Her reasons are that it was - a rushed vaccine with little testing- the illness is so mild in children and teens that she doesn't think it is necessary. Me and my DH really want her to have it but I suppose ultimately it is her decision. Her 13 yr old brother and all her cousins have been vaccinated and in her friendship group it is literally half and half.

She says at the moment she isn't planning on going to Spain or the US so it isn't necessary. My hubby is adamant she has to have it and has booked her an appointment for Monday and will take her kicking and screaming if he has too. Funnily enough at the start of the pandemic he was the one who said there would be no way he would vaccinate our children against a mild illness but now omricon is here he is worried for her.

Should she be forced if we feel it is right or should she be free to make her own choice?

I think I’d be disgusted if my child didn’t want to be vaccinated and was willing to happily increase the risk to vulnerable people. Could you ask her please to be very very diligent about distancing and to particularly avoid the vulnerable she does know about
@5zeds
Yes totally. My child would absolutely know how disgusted I was too. Regularly.

But then my child wouldnt have been so stupid and had their first vaccine the earliest appointment she could get after her age was allowed

DS is critically vulnerable. If he was going to school your child could be sat next to him. DD closest friend has two CEV siblings who have been told, actually told, would not be suitable for intubation if they developed bad covid. Has your child considered how she would feel if she passed on covid to either of these two children or their siblings? The anxiety that both DD and her friend throughout the pandemic has been immeasurable.

Thankfully i am in the position of being able to home ed DS and DD. They are literally isolated because society wants their freedom. It has been vastly beneficial in terms of anxiety but DD wants and will go back at the next transition point in September. She could go back to a society which is much safer.

Or she could go back to a society which is much less safe because children have "done their research" and "would rather wait". If it was my child they absolutely would be out of school home schooling in serious levels of isolation. If you dont want to contribute positively from society, you absolutely shouldn't benefit from it.

When I hear the trite line "our young people have given up so much", I think they havent got a fucking clue.

If you dont take the vaccine you are a selfish fucker and i hope, given time, society absolutely restricts what you can do.

5zeds:
"I think I’d be disgusted if my child didn’t want to be vaccinated."

I don't feel that way.

Dh and I always get done, with any medication, as soon as we possibly can. Ds2 was very keen and has been vaccinated twice, at 13, ahead of all of his friends.

Ds1 less keen, but has had first, isn't due 2nd yet. Is Uber healthy and thinks his body should be able to fight it. His choice.

If you read Heziba post you see that some doctors think : "that there was not enough data on side effects yet." - Which is a valid concern.

Absolutely everyone I know at the moment that has and has passed on covid is double or triple vaccinated. Stop making pit that OP's daughter is going to be personally responsible for killing all the vulnerable people

There are 3 or 4 posters already having agreed with 5zeds.

You'd actually be disgusted? That a child is trying to navigate themselves through this pandemic world the best they can and don't have all the years of adulting and knowledge you have?

I'd be worried and trying to help her learn more but I wouldn't be disgusted.

You need to stop your husband bullying her. She's made a decision based on an analysis of risk vs benefit, something which many (most) have lost the ability to do. When she gets to the appointment 'kicking and screaming' I hope she states that she is there against her will 😔 honestly Covid has made people crazy.

My hubby is adamant she has to have it and has booked her an appointment for Monday and will take her kicking and screaming if he has too

Your husband sounds vile. Brutal. If he does this then he deserves to be arrested frankly.

You can't make her have it, that's ridiculous

Her research skills need some work though

*Or she could go back to a society which is much less safe because children have "done their research" and "would rather wait". If it was my child they absolutely would be out of school home schooling in serious levels of isolation. If you dont want to contribute positively from society, you absolutely shouldn't benefit from it.

When I hear the trite line "our young people have given up so much", I think they havent got a fucking clue*

.

'She doesn't think the benefits outweigh the risks'

Just curious - what does she say the risks are, uou did not mention any? If she's adamant she does not want it and (or because?) if half of her friendship group are unvaxxed I'd explore her reasons calmly but would not argue heads on as it's unlikely to help.

@Thievesoil

Well her research reached the same conclusion as the JCVI so quite why it’s thought she is incorrect is beyond me

However your bigger issue is her father who thinks he can override her consent. Appalling

See previous post about members of the JCVI. Not all are or were doctors. Many of those who are doctors, are not medical doctors. The one who left "to spend more time with his family" is a sociology lecturer found to have links to some very dodgy anti-vax groups. We needed to listen to the CMOs. Ultimately it's their call.

@Caramellatteplease I cannot imagine how hard it must be for those with extremely vulnerable children.
It was hard enough in the early days with an immunosupressed DH. We did all we could to protect him.
We now have the reassurance of the vaccine but depending on age children don't always have that option.

My niece is 15, we went away with her over Xmas and when I asked if she’d had the vaccine she said no way that’s not cool. Although it might not feel like it 15 is still a child, however much reading they do they aren’t able to see the full picture at that age and make a proper informed decision. It is her choice but you should sit her down and go through it together. My 8 yo has a phobia of injections but when I laid out all of the facts she said she would absolutely have it. Yes it rarely causes severe illness in kids but let’s be honest, that’s not why your DD has been offered it. It’s to stop the spread and stop it getting to those who are more vunerable, so she needs to understand that first and foremost which it sounds like she doesn’t. Unfortunately I don’t think many people do. Also, statistically our girls are much more likely to get clots from being on the pill when they reach that age yet they’ll not even be told about that, any risks from the vaccine are so minuscule they’re barely existent. I would actually give my DD’s this one over the HPV vaccine any day.

I know at the moment that has and has passed on covid is double or triple vaccinated. Stop making pit that OP's daughter is going to be personally responsible for killing all the vulnerable people

Shit may happen

If you have done all you reasonably can you have taken personal responsibility, then I'm cool with that. But I absolutely dont believe that personal freedom comes before personal responsibility.

I wouldnt argue the point re the vaccine specifically, (you cant argue with stupid). But I would start pointing out all the times my DC benefitted from others taking responsibility for their happiness and wellbeing when there was no personal benefit. For example pocket money there's no personal benefit to me in giving my child pocket money, I might wait and see if the benefits to me personally improve before I give any more. Lift out to see your friends? Not sure what the benefit personally to me is, I might have an accident on the road that I wouldn't have had if I hadnt given that lift..... im pretty sure I could be finding a hell of a lot more if I needed. Society, whether that's the family or the country, only works as a whole if everyone is pulling together

You might not be directly responsible for a CEV person dying, but you can be personally responsible for making the world safer place for them. Or you can be responsible for making it a less safe.

Children should be taught with great power comes great responsibility. I dont believe we do our children or our society any favours by shielding them from the impacts of freedom

Also, statistically our girls are much more likely to get clots from being on the pill when they reach that age yet they’ll not even be told about that, any risks from the vaccine are so minuscule they’re barely existent. I would actually give my DD’s this one over the HPV vaccine any day.

My DD asked to go on the pill when she was 14 and the Dr went into a lot of detail about the side effects, the risk of blood clots etc and was v reluctant to prescribe. I thought the HPV vaccine had a proven very positive impact on rates of cervical cancer? (I know the covid vaccine has been very effective in lessening hospitalisation and severe illness but from a teenager pov I doubt there are a lot of stats directly relating to them)

Well I would argue that the make up of the JCVI is stronger with a wider variety of professionals on it. It’s not solely a medical decision and I think much of the decision is the conflict between benefit to self and benefit to society.

For the benefit to society to prevail, the risk to self would have to be minuscule and the benefit to society huge. We see the spread amongst the vaccinated only slightly lower - and for how long? And we still don’t know the impact on things like the menstrual cycle

This doesn’t make people “anti vax” (whatever that even means). Many are quietly measured.

If your daughter has come to this conclusion despite her father’s insistence, then she sounds a rather remarkable young lady

I think you DD is doing what all teenagers are programmed to do and starting to become autonomous.
Part of this is independent decision making and as parents we have to support and enable the process. Your Dh attempting to force her into any course of action at 15 is not helpful and he needs to look at his parenting and relationship with his children.
Forcing your teenager to put up and shut up to the wishes of any man ignoring her own feelings is not a lesson you want to imprint, even if it’s her father.

I think that your Dh, and some of the responses, are being very unfair.
The JCVI was lukewarm about that age group as the risk/benefit ratio isn't as clear as older cohorts. At the time I remember a lot of parents being annoyed as they felt that they and their teens should have the option to be vaccinated. Well fine, they have that option now, but equally there should not be any pressure.

Imagine she has it under duress and suffers a bad outcome? How guilty would your DH feel and how angry would she be at him?
Anywhere there is risk, there needs to be choice.

@Borderterrierpuppy

I think you DD is doing what all teenagers are programmed to do and starting to become autonomous. Part of this is independent decision making and as parents we have to support and enable the process. Your Dh attempting to force her into any course of action at 15 is not helpful and he needs to look at his parenting and relationship with his children. Forcing your teenager to put up and shut up to the wishes of any man ignoring her own feelings is not a lesson you want to imprint, even if it’s her father.

I agree with this. She is her own person.

See previous post about members of the JCVI.
Not all are or were doctors. Many of those who are doctors, are not medical doctors. The one who left "to spend more time with his family" is a sociology lecturer found to have links to some very dodgy anti-vax groups.
We needed to listen to the CMOs. Ultimately it's their call.

Interesting point.

This teenager, like most teenagers, is basically being asked to take a vaccine for the benefit of others, rather than herself, i.e., it’s not for any real medical benefit to herself, rather it’s a benefit to society as a whole.

Those who get het up on these threads about people hesitating over the vaccine, usually make the point that the vaccine is not just for oneself, but to protect others too.

So why do you think it’s a detriment that the JCVI has members who are there to consider the wider sociological benefits of vaccines?

Respect her position. It's her body and her choice. But do sit down and say this, and ask that she hears you out, tell her the positives and say again you'll respect her decision whatever it is.

It's a big choice for a 15 year old to be vaccinated more for the benefit of others. Which it is at 15.

I'm very very relieved that my 15 year old is vaccinated along with my 17 year old. But if they were absolutely against it we would be finding other ways such as lateral flow tests before spending time with vulnerable people and before going into school.

Your DH absolutely won’t be able to “drag her kicking and screaming” to the vaccine clinic. HTH

And I am completely pro-vaccine and think decisions relating to them will have real world consequences eg travel restrictions. But I’m also pro-choice when it comes to women’s bodies. What other medical procedure would he drag her to against her will?

I'm not anti vax at all.

I am also totally pro choice.

Your child has autonomy over her body at this age - you cannot and should not force her to have the jab.

You can advise and guide her - not bully her.

She can choose whether or not to have the jab.

She can also change her mind and have it at a later date.

People who are over 40 or so and/or have any health vulnerabilities need to be strongly encouraged to have the vaccine; even if they are happy to risk their own healthy it's unfair for them to risk clogging up hospitals that the rest of us also might need to use.

A healthy 15yo? I'd prefer her to get it, if she were my daughter, but I don't think it's the end of the world if she does not. You cannot drag her into the appointment and they won't do it without her consent. I wold just drop the issue and leave her alone. At some point she'll probably want it for things like travel, but in the meantime, omicron looks pretty mild thank goodness.

It's her choice. Your husband needs to calm down just because she is his child doesnt mean he can force her to do anything