15 yr old doesn't want the vaccine.

[legohurts16]

My 15 yr old DD does not want the covid vaccine. She doesn't think the benefits outweigh the risks. She is very mature and has read up on the subject and is adamant that at the moment she doesn't want it.

Her reasons are that it was - a rushed vaccine with little testing- the illness is so mild in children and teens that she doesn't think it is necessary. Me and my DH really want her to have it but I suppose ultimately it is her decision. Her 13 yr old brother and all her cousins have been vaccinated and in her friendship group it is literally half and half.

She says at the moment she isn't planning on going to Spain or the US so it isn't necessary. My hubby is adamant she has to have it and has booked her an appointment for Monday and will take her kicking and screaming if he has too. Funnily enough at the start of the pandemic he was the one who said there would be no way he would vaccinate our children against a mild illness but now omricon is here he is worried for her.

Should she be forced if we feel it is right or should she be free to make her own choice?

My older teen has also decided against it, I'm triple vaxxed and disagree with him. We chat regularly about it and I have tried to keep the chat light enough so he can back down easily and doesn't become entrenched to make a point.

Her choice, absolutely. All my friends in their 40s who've had omicron had no more than mild cold symptoms and some were asymptomatic.

@HepzibahGreen

Just in the interests of plain facts: the Membership of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation: Membership Professor Andrew Pollard, Chair (University of Oxford) Professor Lim Wei Shen, Chair COVID-19 immunisation (Nottingham University Hospitals) Professor Anthony Harnden, Deputy Chair (University of Oxford) Dr Kevin Brown (Public Health England) Dr Rebecca Cordery (Public Health England) Dr Maggie Wearmouth (East Sussex Healthcare NHS Trust) Professor Matt Keeling (University of Warwick) Alison Lawrence (lay member) Professor Robert Read (Southampton General Hospital) Professor Anthony Scott (London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine) Professor Adam Finn (University of Bristol) Dr Fiona van der Klis (National Institute for Public Health and the Environment, Netherlands) Professor Maarten Postma (University of Groningen) Professor Simon Kroll (Imperial College London) Dr Martin Williams (University Hospitals Bristol) Professor Jeremy Brown (University College London Hospitals) Co-opted members (implementation matters) Ms Anne McGowan Dr Lorna Willocks Dr Jillian Johnston Dr Julie Yates

They examined the data and came to the conclusion that at the moment the benefits of vaccination for children do not outway the risks, and that there was not enough data on side effects yet. Obvs other experts will disagree. The decision of a teen to wait is not an irrational one, and that should be respected.

Absolutely.

I think forcing her is wrong.

Providing her with more evidence as to why you think she should have it will likely bring her round. But it would be absolutely wrong to force her.

@Caramellatteplease

I think I’d be disgusted if my child didn’t want to be vaccinated and was willing to happily increase the risk to vulnerable people. Could you ask her please to be very very diligent about distancing and to particularly avoid the vulnerable she does know about *@5zeds* Yes totally. My child would absolutely know how disgusted I was too. Regularly.

But then my child wouldnt have been so stupid and had their first vaccine the earliest appointment she could get after her age was allowed

DS is critically vulnerable. If he was going to school your child could be sat next to him. DD closest friend has two CEV siblings who have been told, actually told, would not be suitable for intubation if they developed bad covid. Has your child considered how she would feel if she passed on covid to either of these two children or their siblings? The anxiety that both DD and her friend throughout the pandemic has been immeasurable.

Thankfully i am in the position of being able to home ed DS and DD. They are literally isolated because society wants their freedom. It has been vastly beneficial in terms of anxiety but DD wants and will go back at the next transition point in September. She could go back to a society which is much safer.

Or she could go back to a society which is much less safe because children have "done their research" and "would rather wait". If it was my child they absolutely would be out of school home schooling in serious levels of isolation. If you dont want to contribute positively from society, you absolutely shouldn't benefit from it.

When I hear the trite line "our young people have given up so much", I think they havent got a fucking clue.

If you dont take the vaccine you are a selfish fucker and i hope, given time, society absolutely restricts what you can do.

What a disgusting attitude! Children have died after having the vaccine. You can still pass the virus on whether you're jabbed or not. If people are worried about others being unvaccinated then they obviously don't trust the vaccine if they themselves are jabbed.

I can't have more than two jabs as I'm still unwell with side effects from my second jab which was 5 months ago so I guess I'm selfish too.

So why do you think it’s a detriment that the JCVI has members who are there to consider the wider sociological benefits of vaccines?

Actually that isnt the purpose of the JCVI. The JCVI is simply there to establish the safety of vaccines in terms of the individual health risk or benefit. Politicians are the ones responsible for benefitting the societal benefits of vaccines based on the evidence presented by scientists.

Chris Whitty explains it here are part of his omicron briefing to ministers

My teenager got her second jab last week, they asked her three times if it was her choice, plus a bunch of questions about why she wanted it, what she understood it was for etc. I doubt he will be able to force her. she just has to say no.

@greenteafiend

People who are over 40 or so and/or have any health vulnerabilities need to be strongly encouraged to have the vaccine; even if they are happy to risk their own healthy it's unfair for them to risk clogging up hospitals that the rest of us also might need to use.

A healthy 15yo? I'd prefer her to get it, if she were my daughter, but I don't think it's the end of the world if she does not. You cannot drag her into the appointment and they won't do it without her consent. I wold just drop the issue and leave her alone. At some point she'll probably want it for things like travel, but in the meantime, omicron looks pretty mild thank goodness.

They aren't clogging up the hospitals though. Recent published data shows 48% are unvaccinated, not the 90% the media likes to band about.

She is factually correct that the benefits do not outweigh the risks for her. Both the benefits and the risks are very small. Rather dumbfounded at the idea of forcing a teen to do anything. You'll only damage her trust.

Her choice and she’s right that it rarely affects that age group badly.

I can't have more than two jabs as I'm still unwell with side effects from my second jab which was 5 months ago so I guess I'm selfish too
Ehhh? You took personal responsibility. Shit happened. That's not selfish, that's life being shitty. You actually now need everyone else to do their bit to make life safer for you.

You can still pass the virus on whether you're jabbed or not.
but the situation is much more complex than that due to viral load differences between vaccinated and non vaccinated transmission, ultimate vaccine escape etc

She has bodily autonomy.

And you have parental responsibility. So stop being proud of how she backs up her point of view and start pointing out her errors in critical thinking - starting with her belief that her understanding is better than that of thousand of scientists the world over, over decades of research.

She is reading some uninformed, simply written disinformation and you are allowing that to sit unchallenged. Show her what real research looks like and explain that when she understands the raw research then she can disagree with it. Until then, like everyone else she needs to set aside her fears and take on board the recommendations if those many thousands of scientists who do know what they are talking about.

And no, that isn't being 'sheep' or any other stupid perjorative. It's allowing experts to expert and being able to distinguish between disinformation and academic disagreements.

No she shouldn't be forced and no vaccinator will vaccinate a fifteen year old against their will,
My fifteen year old has had his first vaccine I told him I wanted him to have it but ultimately it was his decision
I don't agree with your daughter ,but it's her decision.

its her choice , iv had mine , but my 13 year old doesnt want it either , and im not going to force her , when alls said and done it was a rushed vaccine , as normally vaccines take years , obviously there wasnt the luxury of that time , but i have to laugh when people scoff at the rushed argument , because if the astra zeneca which more than a few people have died from after suffering blood clots had been able to be tested for much longer than this fatal side effect might have been discovered sooner and so many people might not have died from having it ,

its ludicrous for her dad to drag her down there to have it done , i highly doubt they would give it to her anyway without her consent

[quote Caramellatteplease]So why do you think it’s a detriment that the JCVI has members who are there to consider the wider sociological benefits of vaccines?

Actually that isnt the purpose of the JCVI. The JCVI is simply there to establish the safety of vaccines in terms of the individual health risk or benefit. Politicians are the ones responsible for benefitting the societal benefits of vaccines based on the evidence presented by scientists.

Chris Whitty explains it here are part of his omicron briefing to ministers

[/quote] And when assessing the safety of the vaccinations for teens, the JCVI were not minded to recommend them.

The margin was small. But they still chose not to recommend them.

And therefore the OP’s DD is not being irrational or stupid in not wishing to have the vaccine. It’s a finely balanced choice and she’s entitled to exercise her autonomy.

At her age, it’s her choice, your husband can NOT drag here there kicking and screaming. Who does he think he is? Is he always such a bully?

@Caramellatteplease

I think I’d be disgusted if my child didn’t want to be vaccinated and was willing to happily increase the risk to vulnerable people. Could you ask her please to be very very diligent about distancing and to particularly avoid the vulnerable she does know about *@5zeds* Yes totally. My child would absolutely know how disgusted I was too. Regularly.

But then my child wouldnt have been so stupid and had their first vaccine the earliest appointment she could get after her age was allowed

DS is critically vulnerable. If he was going to school your child could be sat next to him. DD closest friend has two CEV siblings who have been told, actually told, would not be suitable for intubation if they developed bad covid. Has your child considered how she would feel if she passed on covid to either of these two children or their siblings? The anxiety that both DD and her friend throughout the pandemic has been immeasurable.

Thankfully i am in the position of being able to home ed DS and DD. They are literally isolated because society wants their freedom. It has been vastly beneficial in terms of anxiety but DD wants and will go back at the next transition point in September. She could go back to a society which is much safer.

Or she could go back to a society which is much less safe because children have "done their research" and "would rather wait". If it was my child they absolutely would be out of school home schooling in serious levels of isolation. If you dont want to contribute positively from society, you absolutely shouldn't benefit from it.

When I hear the trite line "our young people have given up so much", I think they havent got a fucking clue.

If you dont take the vaccine you are a selfish fucker and i hope, given time, society absolutely restricts what you can do.

you need to go and do one , we still live in a free society where we have choices over our bodies , just as well your not in charge isnt it . iv never read so much shit as you have written , you honestly think kids that dont want to have a vaccine for a virus that has minimal risk to them should be isolated and out of school , fuck me , your views wouldnt be out of place in north korea !

and yes as a society we do want our freedom back , it had been since 2019 we have suffered restrictions and lockdowns , and omicron is now a much milder varient
you are the selfish fucker as you seem to think non vaccinated kids should be isolated just because your kids have cev friends . sorry but thats just an insane view although sadly it will be shared by others on here no doubt

I gave my DD age 14 the choice, I asked her to look into it and make her own decision. I would have respected it either way. She chose to have it and has been fine, but I'd never have forced her to have it.

Your husband thinks he can over rule her because she is a child but he also thinks he can overrule you! You have said here that while you prefer her to have the vaccine you think it should be up to your DD. Have you told your husband this? If so, by booking her an appointment and threatening to force her to have it, he is trying to over rule both of you. I would be questioning my relationship in those circumstances tbh. Does he do this in other areas of your life?

I am pro vaccine and triple jabbed, my 15 yo has had his too (his choice). I am also for preventing access to places or even jobs for the unvaccinated. However bodily autonomy is paramount and your daughter’s choice must be respected. Your DH should not try to force her either physically or mentally.

No medical professional would vaccinate a 15 year old against her will so it's a moot point, she has rights in this country and can't be forced. Your DH is just wasting other people's time wasting an appointment.

Good on her. Kids don’t need the vaccine.

I’m literally agog at some of the attitudes on here calling teens selfish f*ers for not wanting the Covid vaccine!!!!!!

What world do we live in where we are expecting our children and young people to protect us/older people. If as a species we have reversed the evolutionary instinct that adults protect children, rather than vice versa, humanity is doomed.

As Brene Brown said ‘we blame when we’re in fear or angry’.

Let’s stop blaming children for our fear.

^This! The risks do not outweigh the benefits for kids! Stop expecting them to take risks to protect adults. I can’t believe anyone would think otherwise!

It protects them too, and a 15 year old is likely to be adult sized or very nearly so, and approaching adult pattern disease.

What world do we live in where we are expecting our children and young people to protect us/older people.

I hope we live in a world where young people are brought up to be proud when they are able to do something to protect the most vulnerable in society. (Which incidentally is not just the old, particularly with the in school transmission amongst CEV individuals who may not even be double vaccinated yet.)

You be horrified by someone calling a person who actively choses to be unvaccinated a selfish fucker.

I'll be horrified by the idea that protecting the vulnerable is society is not something to be expected or even a positive thing.