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Friends don't / won't test

165 replies

Chewbecca · 31/12/2021 16:34

Before we go out this evening.

I just think that is a little rude of them! It's for our benefit, not their own so it just seems polite to do it for the people you're seeing.

WWYD? If anything.

OP posts:
Emilyontmoor · 01/01/2022 23:16

Emily I have already pointed out to Sheik on two different threads that recent research has not found any of the foundations for previous definitions of who is vulnerable to this virus have stood up, apart from age. When adjusted for other factors like the prevalence of frontline working etc they all do not account for vulnerability. However certain particles on DNA are emerging as predicative of serious disease (or mild disease). I am one of the supposedly vulnerable people who had asymptomatic Covid (and I know many more. I am part of a study into it.) So at the moment there is no way Shiek can be sure they aren’t vulnerable and therefore likely to take up a hospital bed.

The real source of my health anxiety at the moment is therefore not Covid but that my hospital has declared a major incident, and has once again had to make wards that would be treating other problems into Covid wards including one of the orthopaedic wards. The other orthopaedic ward is jammed with octogenarians with dementia who have injuries from falling but could be released in to a much better care environment if the care homes could take more people, they can’t because of staff shortages. Don’t break a leg around here at the moment, you will be stuck in the hell of scared old people screaming in pain and confusion, and kicked out long before your specialist thinks it is safe (actual experience).

It is interesting to see how people in need of a narrative that denies the nature and impact of Covid latch on to causes. The issue of starving the NHS to bring about privatisation was in play before Covid. And the way that government responded, privatising the response, was just reinforcing the evidence. However the Scientists who are supposed to be part of the plot were the ones criticising the handling of the pandemic and their response was to mount a public sector testing initiative to get staff back on the wards of GOSH, the Royal Marsden, UCL etc. All masterminded by the clinical head of Cancer Research U.K. and Sir Paul Nurse , Nobel prize winner. Just leveraging the science, not some weird plot.

One early and particularly offensive one was this issue of Cancer treatment, where were these activists in fighting drug rationing and postcode lotteries. Another is that they all accept death as part of life. Well I hope they have been part of the death cafe movement and supporting activists like Rachel Clarke who is trying to take the terror out of society’s perception of death. Somehow I doubt it. And why add to the lives left unlived, like my grandfather who died, healthy and fit from Hong Kong flu and never saw his grandchildren. One month later there was a vaccine.

As to the environmental impact of Covid well all those bits (and they are bits) of plastic over a pandemic period of two years to good effect, pale into significance compared to the mountains coming out of every house every day for sheer convenience.

Wizzbangfizz · 01/01/2022 23:31

@Emilyontmoor have you been this concerned in previous years when the nhs has been on its knees

Cherryblossoms85 · 01/01/2022 23:53

Weird that we've come to this. Taking a test all the time. It's totally out of step with other countries and unaffordable. Leave the tests for NHS workers and the rest of us will at some point need to stop testing. Nobody goes about testing for chicken pox, and shingles is a major source of morbidity in vulnerable adults.

Emilyontmoor · 01/01/2022 23:59

Wingbangfizz Definitely yes. Anyone who has been on a hospital ward in recent years is well aware that too many dementia patients have been blocking beds and left in confused pain because they could not access the specialist dementia care they needed . I have seen it from both sides, a young person having to deal with the understandable distress, manifested in screaming, urinating in the middle of the ward and taking all their clothes off, as well as her own trauma and pain after a serious accident and a parent whose last illness was only peaceful because thankfully we could afford that he had that end of life care that care homes best provide to someone with dementia once medical care has reached its limits. Covid has made all this so much worse but the underlying causes are the same, most people do not understand or want to understand a difficult issue and so politicians do not confront it.

Emilyontmoor · 02/01/2022 00:06

Cherry Confused If your child gets chicken pox it is fairly obvious and you isolate them because it is infectious (good luck trying not to). If you get shingles, which is not infectious, and a manifestation of previous illness, you get a diagnosis and treatment. It isn’t remotely comparable

lljkk · 02/01/2022 07:20

"You can get chickenpox from someone who has shingles if you have never had chickenpox or never received the chickenpox vaccine."

So yes, in practice, people with shingles should also isolate away from others

We can equally validly say same about isolation due to flu (often asymptomatic) & many common cold viruses.

Emilyontmoor · 02/01/2022 09:41

We can equally validly say same about isolation due to flu (often asymptomatic) & many common cold viruses. If a cold or flu virus was as infectious as Covid and had such deep consequences for society (hospitals overwhelmed, staff shortages causing issues with essential services) then a normal government would be taking public health measures, as they are around the world. There were pandemic plans in place (albeit gathering dust on a shelf without any investment in public health resources) that were made on the assumption of exactly that, a highly infectious flu virus. In 2009 in response to swine flu (which killed young people, because older people have immunity to flu viruses) public health officials in the U.K. were testing, isolating cases and contacts, closing schools where there were cases and treating all close contacts with Tamiflu to contain the outbreak. The difference with swine flu was that we already had an understanding of it, vaccines and treatments. I don’t doubt that with politicians that were more motivated by public service and less by ideology, Theresa May springs to mind, we would have had a more effective public health response based on those plans that avoided long damaging lockdowns.

The worry with all this libertarian ideology / Covid misinformation / denial /conspiracy is that when another virulent virus emerges, (something like MERS which emerged in the Middle East and killed 20% before South Korea contained the outbreak) we will not mount a sensible public health response, restricting “liberty” on a temporary basis to contain the virus for the public good because this sort of science denying ideology has taken hold . Covid only got out of the bag to spread and mutate because of political weakness in China and the west. Imagine if everywhere had responded like Taiwan who spotted the virus on planes from Wuhan and implemented a public health response in December 2019 that has contained the virus for most of the last two years even as the rest of the world let it grow and mutate. Hopefully it is mutating into something that we can live with like normal flu strains but it definitely is not there yet with the problems caused by the current wave, nor can we assume there won’t be another more infectious / deadly virus (or indeed anti biotic evading bacteria) that threatens society.

Cherryblossoms85 · 02/01/2022 10:08

I'm just saying that testing cannot and will not continue indefinitely, it is unaffordable.

Emilyontmoor · 02/01/2022 11:04

cherryblossom Not controlling the transmission of cases, and then having to implement extreme measures when cases are out of control and threaten essential services and the economy, comes at a high cost too. All along the LFTs, Dom’s grand project moonshot, have been a sticking plaster, handing responsibility for controlling the virus to us in place of taking other measures (until they were forced to do so). Hopefully after this wave Covid will fizzle out and no longer threaten our services and economy and they won’t need to offer us that sticking plaster but that is wishful thinking not certainty. This virus has been far from predictable.

lljkk · 02/01/2022 21:51

I dunno ... testing could continue forever. People seem to want that to happen. I would have thought nothing could make industry stop & the air clear in lots of countries -- but it happened. In spring 2020. Factories closed & animals reclaimed spaces.

Because there was political will to make that happen. The air clearing proved that climate change could be halted. If people actually wanted to stop it.

Then people went back to their old ways & no change persisted. Because there isn't political will to stop climate change. Or stop malaria infections in children. Or fix lots of things in the world.

Yet... There may be political will to test for Covid forever. People like the testing to make it go on forever, care more about it than other perceived problems.

GettingStuffed · 02/01/2022 22:49

We haven't been able to get lfts here, Boots said they had 2 boxes through December

SantaClawsServiette · 02/01/2022 23:26

Testing really doesn't give much more assurance that they are covid free. They are probably covid free if they test and it says so, but also still probably covid free if they don't.

It's almost certain you will be exposed at some point, too.

Seems a bit of a waste of resources for people to keep using the tests so often.

SheikhMaraca · 04/01/2022 21:17

@Emilyontmoor

cherryblossom Not controlling the transmission of cases, and then having to implement extreme measures when cases are out of control and threaten essential services and the economy, comes at a high cost too. All along the LFTs, Dom’s grand project moonshot, have been a sticking plaster, handing responsibility for controlling the virus to us in place of taking other measures (until they were forced to do so). Hopefully after this wave Covid will fizzle out and no longer threaten our services and economy and they won’t need to offer us that sticking plaster but that is wishful thinking not certainty. This virus has been far from predictable.
There are literally no examples of a country in which this strategy has worked though.

It just hasn’t been possible to control the transmission of cases.

Your post rests on a whole pile of wishful thinking, not the facts as they actually stand.

JuergenSchwarzwald · 04/01/2022 21:23

@Cherryblossoms85

Weird that we've come to this. Taking a test all the time. It's totally out of step with other countries and unaffordable. Leave the tests for NHS workers and the rest of us will at some point need to stop testing. Nobody goes about testing for chicken pox, and shingles is a major source of morbidity in vulnerable adults.
quite.

If you are seeing someone who is vulnerable, then test if they'd like you to.

But not to go out for a meal with friends who I presume are relatively young. Madness. If you are that worried about getting it, don't go out. Or meet outside (and catch a chill instead!)

I had hoped that now Christmas was over all this testing madness for social events would stop. Save the tests for people who need them for their work!

onedayoranother · 04/01/2022 21:43

Huh? I would not expect a friend to test before I went to their house. I've had friends here and been out and unless you ask all the tables next to you to test you are being over cautious.
All my friends have been triple vaccinated and several have had covid. Unless they have symptoms we are socialising.
Don't go if you are worried, but ending a friendship? Ridiculous.

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