No new measures in England before New Year

[Jourdain11]

Has just been announced by the Health Secretary and reported across BBC etc.

@Poetrypatty

Nobody wants a lockdown. What was being looked at today was any measures needed to prevent the virus running wild surely.

Not sure how many on this thread live in London, but it's been carnage in the area I live at least, with so many people getting it, that places can't open because of no staff. This will have a knock on effect in schools and the NHS.

In London we may be over the worst of this by the time schools are going back, and hospitals start to get really really full, or we may not. And we have plenty of hospitals. Other areas won't have these advantages.

Which is why covid positive people should still be able to work if they feel able. That would solve that one.

@MarshaBradyo

I know you didn’t but this

Interruptions - schools open, schools closed, classes open, classes closed, some siblings in, some out, last minute changes, early collection etc etc - just so disruptive to everyone, including children's learning and parents working life. ( and no furlough to support parents).

Has not been anywhere near as bad even with the London delta wave - which meant my dc were off for isolation but that was it

But has been already in the Autumn term @MarshaBradyo.

I work for an LA, I was dealing with the above daily.
Maybe because we have many small schools but nevertheless so much disruption.
A break now would have helped a consistent school return in January. Lots of time together for Christmas and NY isn't going to help.

My original point was that I hope the people celebrating today about continuing to party into the NY, don't moan when their child's education is disrupted.

But if they're in hospital being treated for sth else entirely (let's say appendicitis) and they just happen to have Covid when admitted, that does make a difference.

Which is why covid positive people should still be able to work if they feel able. That would solve that one.

Yes definitely wise to increase hospital-acquired infections in e.g. cancer wards

@Jourdain11

But if they're in hospital being treated for sth else entirely (let's say appendicitis) and they just happen to have Covid when admitted, that does make a difference.

You misunderstood what I wrote.

If they would have gone home on Tuesday with the appendix but have to stay two more weeks due to covid, that is the same problem - bed capacity.

Thank god! They're finally seeing sense.

They just want the tills ringing and the people in England out celebrating NYE so the Mail can have pics of ' party goers ' out having fun on Friday night !
I can see both sides of this to be fair and data and graphs and the figures involved are not my forte at all , but it's still a gamble isn't it ?
50/ 50 I think and many people I know are anti restrictions and want it all to go away and go back to normal
I Just hope they can get treatment in a hospital if it doesn't go well next few weeks because they will be shouting if it doesn't.
It is still a dilemma :(

But has been already in the Autumn term

We’ll see, all the way through this I’ve had ‘you wait’ until it hits. It did hit and was low level compared to closure.

Not sure it matters if someone ends up under treatment for COVID when they could otherwise not be there.

But it does matter though as if they were asymptomatic with covid and hadn't broken their leg (just an example) they wouldn't have been in hospital and would have isolated at home if it was picked up. Yes they are now taking up a bed so need to be counted somewhere but not in the covid admissions. Admissions FOR covid should be counted separately to admissions for something totally separate.

Which is why covid positive people should still be able to work if they feel able. That would solve that one.
So if I feel okay I should take my covid positive self to school where many of the youngest students are not even eligible to be vaccinated.
What could possibly go wrong?

If they would have gone home on Tuesday with the appendix but have to stay two more weeks due to covid, that is the same problem - bed capacity.

But why would they have to stay if they weren't ill and could be discharged to their own home?

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

If they would have gone home on Tuesday with the appendix but have to stay two more weeks due to covid, that is the same problem - bed capacity.

But why would they have to stay if they weren't ill and could be discharged to their own home?

That is my point - if they get ill with covid, why do you care where they caught it?

People already in hospital are at higher risk as they are already vulnerable.

Hospital-acquired infections cause significant additional pressure on ICU.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Not sure it matters if someone ends up under treatment for COVID when they could otherwise not be there.

But it does matter though as if they were asymptomatic with covid and hadn't broken their leg (just an example) they wouldn't have been in hospital and would have isolated at home if it was picked up. Yes they are now taking up a bed so need to be counted somewhere but not in the covid admissions. Admissions FOR covid should be counted separately to admissions for something totally separate.

You're either being deliberately obtuse or don't understand at all.

If a person gets ill with covid, why are you nitpicking over where they caught it.

If they're asymptomatic, they won't cause a capacity issue.

Stop squabbling over numbers and focus on the issue, perhaps.

@SilverGlitterBaubles

If anyone believes that Boris Johnson is making decisions in their best interests then they need to give their head a big MN wobble. Johnson is on the ropes trying to save his own skin after recent events, slumps in the opinion polls and pressure from looney backbenchers. Boris Johnson only cares about Boris Johnson.

100% this. At least ventilation has been sorted in schools and decent masks are available to hospitals...

Govt should have had for a long time now installed better ventilation and filtration in schools. Big failing not to.

Cannot agree this govt best we could have currently. The corruption and self interest is appalling.

But given the extreme transmissibility of Omnicron, it's by no means clear that 'measures' short of a full lockdown would have any real effect

I'm no expert but surely mass gatherings aren't the best idea in these circumstances. It doesn't make sense to me in the context of having told people to work from home.

Other than avoiding more criticism about the cheese and wine parties in Downing St etc, which I suspect is a big part of the decision making.

@rrhuth

Which is why covid positive people should still be able to work if they feel able. That would solve that one.

Yes definitely wise to increase hospital-acquired infections in e.g. cancer wards

Obviously not on cancer wards 🙄 but then you wouldn’t work on a cancer ward with flu/cold etc

@Lifeisnteasy

So which wards would you want the covid positive staff to work on? Given a very high proportion of hospital appointments are taken up by elderly people, which services do you think should be covid-positive?

You're either being deliberately obtuse or don't understand at all.

Jesus Christ...

If a person gets ill with covid, why are you nitpicking over where they caught it.

Because if they wouldn't have been in hospital if they hadn't broken their leg they're not a fucking covid admission! They are a broken leg admission and don't need to be treated for covid and can be sent home.

If they're asymptomatic, they won't cause a capacity issue.

Exactly so why are they being counted as a covid admission?

Stop squabbling over numbers and focus on the issue, perhaps.

Stop disagreeing with you I suppose you mean?

[quote rrhuth]@Lifeisnteasy

So which wards would you want the covid positive staff to work on? Given a very high proportion of hospital appointments are taken up by elderly people, which services do you think should be covid-positive?[/quote]
Everything outside of patient-facing healthcare.

Exactly so why are they being counted as a covid admission?

I don't understand why you don't understand. If you are on ward A4 for broken leg, then catch covid, and have to be transferred to ward C5 for breathing support, instead of having gone home healthy, that is a covid admission in effect. The effect being a bed taken up by someone ill with covid.

If loads of people are ill with covid, the hospitals are full. This is widely considered to be a problem, whether the infection happens in the community or in the hospital.

Splitting hairs isn't going to improve bed capacity.

Because if they wouldn't have been in hospital if they hadn't broken their leg they're not a fucking covid admission! They are a broken leg admission and don't need to be treated for covid and can be sent home

If someone breaks their leg and is admitted to hospital and is found to be covid positive, where do you put them ? They may not be unwell with covid, but other people on the ortho ward may become very unwell if they catch covid from the asymptomatic or very few symptoms person, whilst they recover from their broken neck of femur or knee replacement surgery.

@rrhuth

I see we are to remain cautious and are advised to celebrate outside.

So they are avoiding compensating businesses and putting all the risk onto individuals.

This is exactly what has happened in Scotland. Sturgeon comes out and says she's not banning CHristmas parties, but she'd strongly advise against them. Parties cancelled left, right and centre and hospitality shafted. She says to avoid household mixing, avoid busy places. So although the only places which are closed are nightclubs, the restrictions put on the rest of the sector and the messaging about staying in and not socialising are killing the sector.

Yeah, I don't get the 2 weeks thing. Someone goes in for appendicitis, broken ankle, to give birth... whatever... and they test positive upon admission, or before, but are asymptomatic or have mild, cold-like symptoms. They're not then going to be kept in for 2 weeks. They will be treated for the presenting issue and told to go home and isolate

Everything outside of patient-facing healthcare.

Right, so it won't help with healthcare getting overwhelmed then, so makes no positive difference to how likely we are to need a lockdown, just they are dealing with more cases and healthcare workers are more likely to catch it in the community.

So what is the point?