No new measures in England before New Year

[Jourdain11]

Has just been announced by the Health Secretary and reported across BBC etc.

@the80sweregreat I agree it is low. If this was a real concern these MNers would be arguing for schools to be open all year round.

Not everyone in the U.K. lives in England you know 🙄

This thread is about England, not the rest of the UK.

[quote PinkTree7]@IcedPurple

Sage and independent sage have both called for a circuit breaker lockdown until March 31st. That would save 30,000 lives but as usual Johnson is prioritising the economy.

This is a really worrying decision- instead of following the precautionary principle and putting public health protections in place to save lives and protect the NHS, Johnson is appeasing the hard right in his party and has chosen money over human lives.

Even if omicron is milder, the sheer number of cases will overwhelm the NHS. Surely it’s an easy choice- even if the predictions don’t come true, the worse that can happen is that the NHS gets a well deserved break. The alternative could be hundreds of thousands of deaths and hospitals overwhelmed.

I don’t understand what’s so hard about people staying at home for a few months to save lives.[/quote]
@PinkTree7 I think are a 100% bona fide idiot.

You say a 3 month lockdown could save 30,000 lives. How can you even begin to calculate how many lives it will cost, though? Operations missed; diagnoses delayed; treatments cancelled; lives taken in depression and desperation. Not to mention the years of well-being that people lose, or the lost livelihoods, or the businesses that go bust, or the families that sink into poverty for the first time (or the ones that fall deeper), or the abused children who go unprotected because they're not in school, or the countless other ways that people suffer because of lockdowns.

You're being very, very selfish and short-sighted just because it works out ok for you.

Lockdowns cause more harm than good.

Nobody wants a lockdown. What was being looked at today was any measures needed to prevent the virus running wild surely.

Not sure how many on this thread live in London, but it's been carnage in the area I live at least, with so many people getting it, that places can't open because of no staff. This will have a knock on effect in schools and the NHS.

In London we may be over the worst of this by the time schools are going back, and hospitals start to get really really full, or we may not. And we have plenty of hospitals. Other areas won't have these advantages.

@Fairylights25

Yes believe me, there will be riots if schools close. Parents have had enough of their children being used as cannon fodder

Yeah, course they're will😀

I'll echo @humdingle post, this is the right call.

there’s very few reasons for us to need to leave home, given that we can get supermarket and takeaway deliveries.

How bloody selfish can you get? Talk about 'I'm alright Jack'!

I know you didn’t but this

Interruptions - schools open, schools closed, classes open, classes closed, some siblings in, some out, last minute changes, early collection etc etc - just so disruptive to everyone, including children's learning and parents working life. ( and no furlough to support parents).

Has not been anywhere near as bad even with the London delta wave - which meant my dc were off for isolation but that was it

Good.

Some people want us lock downed for months, collecting data, looking at stats. You lockdown if you want. We have been at this 2 years. We need to get our lives back and Boris made the right decision.

That's hospitality thrown under the bus then

I don't think ANYONE reputable is talking about lockdown though, are they? None of the advisors, scientists or elected representatives.

They're all talking about restrictions of varying degrees, I think there is a consensus that the type of lockdown we had at the start caused more harm than good.

What will cause schools to close, and vulnerable children to be at risk is when there aren't enough staff in, there aren't sufficient safeguarding leads and the risk assessments don't support them being able to stay open safely. Vulnerable children arguably are much MORE at risk in this scenario because so many staff are sick and not working so there aren't those who can follow up with them in the same way as both my children's schools did during lockdown when teachers were working full time from home. There aren't the staff nor the forewarning to plan for closure so that someone can follow up and make sure the children will be supervised. The lack of planning, the fact it's all so last minute and seat of pants is clearly and obviously worse for vulnerable kids.

Somehow these worse risks to vulnerable children don't matter though to those who don't want any measures to make schools safer.

Every single teacher by the end of term was on their knees and you could see it - they just didn't have time for anything. Total exhaustion.

I'd like every government minister, and at the very least any ministers at DfE, to do a week or two working as a TA next term in normal classes with the same level of covid mitigation as every state school gets. Ideally in one where the windows don't open. I suspect the policy turnaround would be faster than the speed of light.

The people working in retail and the takeaway establishments haven't had a break at all.
Even some garden centers could open because they sold pet food and cleaning materials.
Having food delivered to you is still making someone else work during a pandemic and having to go out to send it to your door or into work to pick up your bag of potatoes or whatever.
No man is an island ( my late dad's favorite saying !)

Nobody wants a lockdown. What was being looked at today was any measures needed to prevent the virus running wild surely.

But given the extreme transmissibility of Omnicron, it's by no means clear that 'measures' short of a full lockdown would have any real effect.

If true, there's no point imposing 'measures' just for the sake of being seen to be 'doing something'.

Got an awful feeling we might regret this come the first week of January but I hope not.

The right decision.

It’s a gamble. Next week we will see if it’s the right decision.

Apparently if hospital admissions go over 400/day in London, that's the level where taking steps is advocated. It got to 390 just before Christmas, but has dropped back to 340-ish. But only because some trusts don't report over bank holidays so that doesn't sound that great.

I don't see how it gets lower given cases will surely go up in older people after Christmas?

@Zotter

It’s a gamble. Next week we will see if it’s the right decision.

Yep. In England, we will have to just see how it goes

How are they calculating admissions? Is it now just admissions FOR covid rather than people testing positive when they're admitted for something else, or catch it in hospital?

I’m obviously a cynic, because rather than being pleased at the prospect of no restrictions until the new year, I’m thinking ‘uhm, I went back to work last January 4th being assured there was zero concerns that schools spread Covid only to be lockdowned the Tuesday until March 8th’.
Looking at my families countries, Canada and the Netherlands, who have imposed restrictions until mid January, I just think England like the headlines of ‘Christmas saved! New Year’s saved!’ over simple measures to stop the spread.
The language used by the politicians ‘we look at the data everyday and if we need to impose restrictions we will’ fills me with dread. I’m extremely sceptical this current embargo won’t result in a bleak winter. But then I’m a pessimistic MF 😉

Looking at my families countries, Canada and the Netherlands, who have imposed restrictions until mid January, I just think England like the headlines of ‘Christmas saved! New Year’s saved!’ over simple measures to stop the spread.

The Netherlands is under full lockdown. I wouldn't call that 'simple measures'.

I really hope schools are running OK in January. My DS has already stated that he hopes its not home schooling again (and he doesn't even find the work that difficult). I'm currently his teacher so its not like I'd struggle to teach the content, but I do dislike it. We both found it hard last year and I hate recording my teaching and miss being with the kids so much.
It was truly grim from Jan to March this year.

I wouldn't like to say how things are going to pan out, the figures tomorrow will give a better indication of where we are. Anecdotally things seem to be hotting up, both in terms of staff sickness due to covid or isolating and the number of infections in care settings, up here in the North.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

How are they calculating admissions? Is it now just admissions FOR covid rather than people testing positive when they're admitted for something else, or catch it in hospital?

Not sure it matters if someone ends up under treatment for COVID when they could otherwise not be there.

There are some hospital-acquired infections of course but they are less than a quarter. If they go on to need covid treatment they are still using a bed.