No new measures in England before New Year

[Jourdain11]

Has just been announced by the Health Secretary and reported across BBC etc.

Lab technicians, etc.?

@rrhuth

Everything outside of patient-facing healthcare.

Right, so it won't help with healthcare getting overwhelmed then, so makes no positive difference to how likely we are to need a lockdown, just they are dealing with more cases and healthcare workers are more likely to catch it in the community.

So what is the point?

It’s not all about the NHS. The NHS isn’t the only thing I consider when thinking about consequences. By hiding away and ‘protecting’ it, we are enabling the government to continue to underfund it, so at the end they can go ‘See! See! It didn’t collapse’ - no because we gave several years of our lives, unwillingly, to protect it

My priority right now isn’t the NHS, it’s mental health and quality of life.

@Jourdain11

Yeah, I don't get the 2 weeks thing. Someone goes in for appendicitis, broken ankle, to give birth... whatever... and they test positive upon admission, or before, but are asymptomatic or have mild, cold-like symptoms. They're not then going to be kept in for 2 weeks. They will be treated for the presenting issue and told to go home and isolate

The example I am talking about is not asymptomatic, as I said have to be transferred to ward C5 for breathing support, instead of having gone home healthy - asymptomatic people don't need breathing support

Why are you obsessed with asymptomatic cases

The issues is too many people are ill with covid. But @Wrongkindofovercoat makes a separate and relevant point about infection control issues causing yet more pressure.

Maybe you just don't believe the stats, in which cases there is little point discussing. If you think all doctors/nurses are lying about covid pressures, you will think all the stats are nonsense anyway.

My dds school struggled a lot with teachers off with covid just before the holidays but they managed to stay open. Some staff felt very ill, Others did not but all had to isolate for 10 days. They’ve all mostly had it now and disruption should be less when they get back.
Schools that haven’t had it yet will have to prepare to struggle for a few weeks but it’s temporary and the reduction to 7 days isolation will make a difference.

@Jourdain11

Lab technicians, etc.?

How do you restrict the infection to them and keep it from the consultants, surgeons, nurses, porters etc?

My priority right now isn’t the NHS, it’s mental health and quality of life

How much mental health care and quality of life improvement will there be if people are dying outside hospital?

Honestly, do people really not understand what overwhelmed healthcare means?

How do you restrict the infection to them and keep it from the consultants, surgeons, nurses, porters etc?

You don’t. You let it naturally go through the population while we have a mild variant. I wouldn’t suggest anything as stupid as symptomatic positive cases working with sick people. But aside from this scenario, let’s just all crack on, living our lives as we see fit.

My priority right now isn’t the NHS, it’s mental health

If the NHS was functioning properly l wouldn’t have had to pay for a pyschiatrist. I would be able to see my mental health worker every two weeks. I’d be having regular reviews with my gp.

I’m having to pay for private counselling for Dd as it’s impossible to access NHS counselling. It’s available, but no space for months on end.

What were you saying about prioritising mental health? Because for those of us with existing conditions we’ve had no help or support. So actually in terms of mental health, the NHS isa priority.

@rrhuth

My priority right now isn’t the NHS, it’s mental health and quality of life

How much mental health care and quality of life improvement will there be if people are dying outside hospital?

Honestly, do people really not understand what overwhelmed healthcare means?

By mental health I mean of the population as a whole. Almost everyone I know has reported a lower mood, feeling stressed and claustrophobic, missing their old lives. I don’t just mean in a clinical setting.

If people are dying outside hospital maybe it will force the tories to admit the NHS is screwed and actually do something about it. Only graphic imagery will change the minds of their supporters it seems.

@Lifeisnteasy

How do you restrict the infection to them and keep it from the consultants, surgeons, nurses, porters etc?

You don’t. You let it naturally go through the population while we have a mild variant. I wouldn’t suggest anything as stupid as symptomatic positive cases working with sick people. But aside from this scenario, let’s just all crack on, living our lives as we see fit.

But you said you didn't want covid-positive staf working on the front line

You've gone in a full loop!

@Poetrypatty

But given the extreme transmissibility of Omnicron, it's by no means clear that 'measures' short of a full lockdown would have any real effect

I'm no expert but surely mass gatherings aren't the best idea in these circumstances. It doesn't make sense to me in the context of having told people to work from home.

Other than avoiding more criticism about the cheese and wine parties in Downing St etc, which I suspect is a big part of the decision making.

So basically all you'd like to see introduced is a ban/restriction on 'mass gatherings'?

You think that in itself will be enough to significantly reduce the spread of an extremely contagious virus?

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

My priority right now isn’t the NHS, it’s mental health

If the NHS was functioning properly l wouldn’t have had to pay for a pyschiatrist. I would be able to see my mental health worker every two weeks. I’d be having regular reviews with my gp.

I’m having to pay for private counselling for Dd as it’s impossible to access NHS counselling. It’s available, but no space for months on end.

What were you saying about prioritising mental health? Because for those of us with existing conditions we’ve had no help or support. So actually in terms of mental health, the NHS isa priority.

You don’t need to lecture me. I was very seriously mentally unwell and an NHS inpatient for quite some time.

You’re actually agreeing with me, you just don’t realise you are.

And for those of us with bad mental health conditions before Covid, Covid has made it much much worse. It’s not just about ‘low mood’

But we have no proper NHS to help us

@rrhuth

No. I want normal working life to resume without restrictions; with the exception being patient-facing symptomatic healthcare workers. It isn’t hard. You’re determined to have ‘gotcha’ moments, but they’re not really are they.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

And for those of us with bad mental health conditions before Covid, Covid has made it much much worse. It’s not just about ‘low mood’

But we have no proper NHS to help us

That’s been the case for years. You have austerity to thank for that. As long as we keep hiding at home to keep it propped up, they’ll never admit there’s a problem.

@rrhuth I'm not "obsessed" with asymptomatic cases. That's the first time I mentioned them! And I've once intimated that I thought anyone was lying; only that "stats" without any analysis can be open to misinterpretation. But clearly you've decided that I'm a brainless idiot, so why should I waste my time trying to convince you?

@Lifeisnteasy

I share the concerns about mental health but I really don't think people would feel better if there was no healthcare. Those with MH needs would be unable to access A&E for example.

Covid is a nightmare but pretending it doesn't exist will make it worse, not better.

I had good help from the NHS before Covid.

[quote Jourdain11]@rrhuth I'm not "obsessed" with asymptomatic cases. That's the first time I mentioned them! And I've once intimated that I thought anyone was lying; only that "stats" without any analysis can be open to misinterpretation. But clearly you've decided that I'm a brainless idiot, so why should I waste my time trying to convince you?[/quote]
@rrhuth has not once shared his or her opinion of what actually should be done, and what will happen if it isn’t. It’s all ‘attack the person’.

[quote rrhuth]@Lifeisnteasy

I share the concerns about mental health but I really don't think people would feel better if there was no healthcare. Those with MH needs would be unable to access A&E for example.

Covid is a nightmare but pretending it doesn't exist will make it worse, not better.[/quote]
I think the population as a whole would feel better. I’m all of the ‘needs of the many’ at this point.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I had good help from the NHS before Covid.

So even after 3 lockdowns and jabbing most of the population it still isn’t ‘protected’. So what’s the point?

@wallypopz

Frankly there’s very few reasons for us to need to leave home, given that we can get supermarket and takeaway deliveries

You can only stay at home because others don't & facilitate it for you.

Exactly!

This is what people seem to forget.

Those who can WFH forget that those supermarket deliveries happen because of delivery drivers, pickers etc. shelf stackers petrol station attendants. And teachers and childcare staff so those people can work. And refuse workers who clear waste. There's probably more.

People have become so short sighted in this.

And I stand by what I said. It's those who've had the luxury of working from home that haven't really seen the full impact of covid beyond the statistics in the news.

Those of us who've had to be out there are far more able to risk assess etc and are far less scared. Mostly I think because we are seeing that it's become much less severe and even with outbreaks in workplaces etc - they pass.

[quote Jourdain11]@rrhuth I'm not "obsessed" with asymptomatic cases. That's the first time I mentioned them! And I've once intimated that I thought anyone was lying; only that "stats" without any analysis can be open to misinterpretation. But clearly you've decided that I'm a brainless idiot, so why should I waste my time trying to convince you?[/quote]
at 'brainless idiot' - those are your words!

I just think there's a lot of 'admitted for covid or with covid' going on.

@itsgettingweird quite. I often wonder if the ‘covid anxiety’ is actually ‘returning to work anxiety’ because people enjoy listening to radio 4 and taking lots of tea breaks.

I think the population as a whole would feel better. I’m all of the ‘needs of the many’ at this point
I do not think the population as a whole would feel better if there is no healthcare available, personally. I'm not sure you're understanding what that would look like for average healthcare.