No new measures in England before New Year

[Jourdain11]

Has just been announced by the Health Secretary and reported across BBC etc.

@rrhuth perhaps the devolved administrations acted before the picture is clear, as a precautionary measure? It is not necessarily so simple as to say one option is right and the other wrong. There are benefits and harms from going down either path.

Also, they may be working with the same datasets, but analysts will analyse differently and reach different conclusions. Also, particular localised considerations, NHS capacity and so on is not necessarily the same across the UK.

@the80sweregreat

I've no doubt that hospitality will suffer :( As I said below , Sunak doesn't care because he won't be paying anyone's wages.

80s it’s already cost another £1bn did you see that?

And yes after all this time employment is a top priority so we’ll keep paying and we’ll feel it for next five to ten years or longer.

Maybe people will question it more in next few years when cost of living is hit even more.

[quote Jourdain11]@rrhuth perhaps the devolved administrations acted before the picture is clear, as a precautionary measure? It is not necessarily so simple as to say one option is right and the other wrong. There are benefits and harms from going down either path.

Also, they may be working with the same datasets, but analysts will analyse differently and reach different conclusions. Also, particular localised considerations, NHS capacity and so on is not necessarily the same across the UK.[/quote]
Listening to scientists / experts there still is uncertainty and acting without that is a different move

Poor businesses. Restaurants are still dead around my way.

Yay

To those criticising this decision, and saying 'the scientists' should be listened to, what restrictions would you introduce, and what is your scientific basis for thinking they be effective?

Depends if they're alive to question it @MarshaBradyo

It’s like watching a car crash in slow motion.

Especially with the refusal to supply medical staff with masks with proper filters.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/27/give-ffp3-masks-to-nhs-staff-omicron-doctors-say

@IcedPurple I am sure the scientists could better advise on this.
We always end up in lockdowns because the government won't do mitigations earlier on.

@JanglyBeads

Depends if they're alive to question it *@MarshaBradyo*

Considering Covid has over a 99% survival rate, maybe even more with jabs, it's pretty likely they will.

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@IcedPurple I am sure the scientists could better advise on this.
We always end up in lockdowns because the government won't do mitigations earlier on.[/quote]
But 'the scientists' have a very narrow viewpoint. The government have to take other things into account too.

If you believe the decision not to introduce restrictions is wrong, then surely you should have some idea as to what you'd like to see the government doing instead?

It's not like people here generally refuse to offer opinions because they believe " the scientists could better advise on this."

I imagine he's not introducing them now so that in a few weeks he can justify it by saying something along the lines of we could have done it after Christmas but it wasn't warranted then. We wouldn't be doing it if we didn't have to and now we really need to do x/y/z

We've reached a point where we can't trust the government and that's quite worrying. I hope things do turn out well, but I've no doubt Boris Johnson's number one concern was his own political career.

Anecdotally I know a lot of people who won't be going out NYE who might have done, and that's bad news for hospitality it really is.

[quote Jourdain11]@rrhuth perhaps the devolved administrations acted before the picture is clear, as a precautionary measure? It is not necessarily so simple as to say one option is right and the other wrong. There are benefits and harms from going down either path.

Also, they may be working with the same datasets, but analysts will analyse differently and reach different conclusions. Also, particular localised considerations, NHS capacity and so on is not necessarily the same across the UK.[/quote]
I guess you either trust Johnson or you don't. I don't.

They had the same analysis on the joint call. The CMOs all work together.

@bonkersbirdie

I imagine he's not introducing them now so that in a few weeks he can justify it by saying something along the lines of we could have done it after Christmas but it wasn't warranted then. We wouldn't be doing it if we didn't have to and now we really need to do x/y/z

By which time it will be too late again...

It is a massive gamble, again.

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@IcedPurple I am sure the scientists could better advise on this.
We always end up in lockdowns because the government won't do mitigations earlier on.[/quote]
The scientists don't actually speak with one voice - there are differing viewpoints.

Also, not strictly true to say "we always end up in lockdown" because mitigations aren't put in place earlier on. There were calls for restrictions in October. This didn't happen and there was no lockdown.

@IcedPurple

Sage and independent sage have both called for a circuit breaker lockdown until March 31st. That would save 30,000 lives but as usual Johnson is prioritising the economy.

This is a really worrying decision- instead of following the precautionary principle and putting public health protections in place to save lives and protect the NHS, Johnson is appeasing the hard right in his party and has chosen money over human lives.

Even if omicron is milder, the sheer number of cases will overwhelm the NHS. Surely it’s an easy choice- even if the predictions don’t come true, the worse that can happen is that the NHS gets a well deserved break. The alternative could be hundreds of thousands of deaths and hospitals overwhelmed.

I don’t understand what’s so hard about people staying at home for a few months to save lives.

@rrhuth they may have had the same info, but the way it applies to their national situations is different.

NHS capacity and availability of specific treatments will be different in NI to in Cardiff, for example. And different to that in London again. It is reasonable that this should affect decision-making in this matter.

PinkTree7 - let me guess, you aren't going to be out of work for the 3 months, nor are you risking your business going under or losing your home?
Just a hunch

I don’t understand what’s so hard about people staying at home for a few months to save lives.

Really..?

@inigomontoyahwillcox I agree- loads of people caught covid at an event last weekend putting paid to Christmas plans. It was expensive and we were all assured measures were in place but this strain is so virulent we didn't stand a chance.

The venue couldn't refund our money as they would have been out of pocket.

In hindsight we should have sucked up the loss but that's too late now

@Ihopeyourcakeisshit

Are teaching unions likely to want restrictions when term starts agian?

you say this like its a bad thing.

We shouldn’t ignore scientists, but we shouldn’t be ruled by them either. They need to be part of the conversation, not leading it. Covid is important, but it’s not the only thing that matters.

@MarshaBradyo

I can’t see young people reacting to you must be cautious

And I don’t blame them. Maybe the risk averse will / older etc but even then many people are going with new mild messaging

Neither can I, many not testing despite having symptoms to avoid isolating and their vaccine passport being revoked which they need for entry into nightclubs. Whatever about any other restrictions allowing a NYE free for all could make a precarious situation even worse.

[quote Jourdain11]@rrhuth perhaps the devolved administrations acted before the picture is clear, as a precautionary measure? It is not necessarily so simple as to say one option is right and the other wrong. There are benefits and harms from going down either path.

Also, they may be working with the same datasets, but analysts will analyse differently and reach different conclusions. Also, particular localised considerations, NHS capacity and so on is not necessarily the same across the UK.[/quote]
Nah
N.S. reported saying there has been a huge increase in cases over the Xmas weekend.
The difference with Scotland is that they look at the science and the figures and make a balanced judgement. The Tories only want to appease the backbenchers.