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Work sending messages pleading for help

359 replies

whenwillthemadnessend · 27/12/2021 09:41

My work has sent out an email this morning pleading for help today. I expect it will be
Like this for a few weeks now.

It's not an essential service likely but if my Work is doing it how are the essential services going to cope

This is why I think we will
End up with some restrictions soon.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
MaybeHeIsMyCat · 29/12/2021 15:16

@Emilyontmoor is it your white blood cells that are affected? I'm just being nosy as I'm neutropenic!

IcedPurple · 29/12/2021 15:21

@Covidworries

Butbwe would also have to lool at and compare the way data is collected in france and the UK. For example in the uk yesterday in was only England data as NI, Scotland and Wales didnt release figures over bank hols. Uk figures are always lower over weekends and back holidays due to delay in reporting so our true figures wont be known till thursday data.

Now it is possible that france system works the same. Hopefully someone in france and in the know will be able to confirm. Or its possible that data release in france is more consistant.

World o meter still records the UK as higher cases than france through and in addition to this we have had higher cases than france for months so while their current cases are shocking i still think the French have handled covid more effectively

France's cases were higher on Tuesday, however you slice and dice it. So you lose the 'bet'.

But that doesn't really matter. That wasn't really my point. My point is that even with 'sensible mitigations', cases are rising rapidly in much of Europe, not just France. Look at Ireland. Or Greece, where cases have doubled since Monday. Or even Scotland.

So I think it's reasonable to ask if 'sensible mitigations' are really all that sensible.

SheikhMaraca · 29/12/2021 15:23

@Emilyontmoor

Autumndays So who exactly are these vulnerable people you are saying should be locking themselves away? In my family we had Covid in March 2020 thanks to the government not taking early enough action to control the virus. None of us were hospitalised. We have an octagenarian with a history of respiratory disease and pneumonia who had a bit of a cough treated with antibiotics. I am immunocompromised and people with better blood counts than me were instructed to shield and I probably wasn’t only because my GP is useless and also failed to offer me vaccination early. I had it without symptoms and I am now part of a study that has already identified particles of DNA that account for whether you experience Covid mildly or severely. The reason there are healthy young people in ICUs now.

It is all very well making pronouncements on what you want the virus to be but Science is still finding out about the reality and as it is mutating all the time it is a moving picture.

If you didn’t want to be infected, you should have isolated yourself.

This notion that somehow the government is to blame for your own choices is just baffling to me.

Why should the rest of us have to sacrifice literally everything for you?

Blubells · 29/12/2021 15:23

*But that doesn't really matter. That wasn't really my point. My point is that even with 'sensible mitigations', cases are rising rapidly in much of Europe, not just France. Look at Ireland. Or Greece, where cases have doubled since Monday. Or even Scotland.

So I think it's reasonable to ask if 'sensible mitigations' are really all that sensible.*

I think omicron is soo transmissible that it's almost impossible to avoid getting it (unless we all live as hermits Wink)

Covidworries · 29/12/2021 15:23

Well lets see where we are in comparission in the next few days. Lots of people unable to get tests so wint be on figures either. Im not bothered about losing the bet. And some restrictions could be the difference between being able to get medical care if needed and not. But only time will tell

IcedPurple · 29/12/2021 15:24

Iced It is simple public health logic that if you limit the number of interactions as they have elsewhere it will slow down the rate of transmission, maybe not by as much as with other variants but even if it is just by 1%, 1% of the very big number of cases which Omichron is set to cause, will slow the rate down.

So that's your aim?

"Sensible restrictions" which make a 1% difference? But cause a lot of hassle and expense?

I'm not necessarily saying all restrictions should be dropped. But given that they don't appear to be having much of an impact elsewhere, I think it's sensible to ask just how sensible they are, on balance.

SheikhMaraca · 29/12/2021 15:26

@Emilyontmoor

Autumndays Well clearly you only see the sense you want to see. “Shut down the country” is a total straw man, we have vaccines so we are already suppressing the virus and hospitalisations.

I will put it in simpler words without any confusing numbers for you. London is suffering economic damage and high levels of hospital admissions as a result of an exponential rise in cases, currently concentrated in the younger age groups . Hospitalisations have risen 52% in a week and it is still behind the lag between infection, hospitalisation and death, particularly as it has been not spread to the most vulnerable parts of the population. It is early days and yet it is approaching the rate that even the politicians who are staking their political futures on libertarianism are conceding will require restrictions to protect the NHS.

The rest of the country, apart from Manchester, is yet to see the rise in cases. let alone the rate of hospitalisation. It is simply too soon to say that this is such a mild disease that with huge case numbers even a small proportion being hospitalised won’t cause the NHS to crash as it already looks set to do in London. Measures like restrictions on household mixing won’t cause the same level of economic damage that the high case numbers we are seeing in London already are. What is causing the damage apart from sickness absence and lack of footfall is the lack of any government framework to support our industries through this.

If you are looking to paint me as a lockdown nut you are far from the truth but I am seeing on the ground within my community the damage that high case numbers are doing. And that chimes with the scientific consensus.

Iced It is simple public health logic that if you limit the number of interactions as they have elsewhere it will slow down the rate of transmission, maybe not by as much as with other variants but even if it is just by 1%, 1% of the very big number of cases which Omichron is set to cause, will slow the rate down. I am quite sure infections flattened in the 20 something age group last week because they stayed home. We will see what happens when they all go out at the weekend.

There is a false comparison between Covid and Colds and Flu as if branding it as such somehow changes it’s nature. The fact is that if flu or another Coronavirus had the transmissibility and impact on the economy and public health of Covid it would be subject to infection control strategies as it was for Swine Flu in 2009, Hong Kong flu in 1957 (which killed my grandfather at the age of 45 ) etc . That was exactly what the (inadequate) pandemic response plans in place in 2019 were designed to do. Even the initial wild type of Covid was three times more transmissible than flu, we don’t know exactly yet but clearly Omichron is many more times transmissible than that.

The whole point is that we aren’t seeing high levels of hospitalisation where the presenting issue is covid.

We haven’t even reached the ‘magic’ 400 a day figure, even when we do take ‘Covid as a co morbidity’ cases into account.

This kind of frothing has no basis in fact or reality.

Emilyontmoor · 29/12/2021 15:32

Iced I was using figures for illustration, that 1% of a very very big figure is still a big figure. It is not for me to say the actual figures, there are an army of public health and other experts analysing the data and weighing up the effectiveness and the costs. But I would take a bet that Nicola Sturgeon et al are looking at the data with a more objective eye than shopping trolley dolly libertarian Boris and I would be inclined to trust their judgement more. What problem exactly do you have with measures like masks and reducing household mixing, it is not much pain for the gain?

Emilyontmoor · 29/12/2021 15:35

Maybe Yes, Neutropenic. My friend was instructed to shield with a level of 3 (Normal range 4+) Mine is 2. However from what I have read all the research is pointing to neutropenia not being a risk factor for Covid as previously feared and anecdotally that is true of the people I know.

IcedPurple · 29/12/2021 15:38

But I would take a bet that Nicola Sturgeon et al are looking at the data with a more objective eye than shopping trolley dolly libertarian Boris and I would be inclined to trust their judgement more.

But that's your subjective judgement on them as people. Do the actual statistics regarding rates in Scotland and England support this?

What problem exactly do you have with measures like masks and reducing household mixing, it is not much pain for the gain?

I don't know. Is it?

If you're going to advocate something, the onus is on you to show it's likely to be beneficial. Telling people who they can and can't have in their own homes is actually a pretty big thing to do. Seeing everyone with covered faces is also very unnatural and unpleasant. Now, if they work to significantly reduce infection, they may be worth it, but just imposing restrictions for the sake of it doesn't seem that 'sensible' to me, especially given that Omnicron is extremely contagious.

MaybeHeIsMyCat · 29/12/2021 15:39

@Emilyontmoor

Maybe Yes, Neutropenic. My friend was instructed to shield with a level of 3 (Normal range 4+) Mine is 2. However from what I have read all the research is pointing to neutropenia not being a risk factor for Covid as previously feared and anecdotally that is true of the people I know.
Same, neutropenic here. 0.3 is my usual but I sometimes hover around 1.5
Emilyontmoor · 29/12/2021 15:48

Sheik You spectacularly miss the point, (again). Why should I have lockdowned for you since I am as sure as I can be having had Covid asymptomatically, had feedback that I have particles on my DNA that account for it and I am triple vaxxed that I am not vulnerable to Covid? What about you? Can you be sure you don’t have the DNA particles (some of which are present in 9% of Asian people) that mean you might end up taking up a hospital bed and put pressure on the NHS? You can’t. I however understand that limiting the damage this virus does to us as a nation, city or other community is a joint endeavour.

My point about March 2020 is that the government took no measures, allowed the middle classes to go off skiing to countries already in the grip of Covid and come back to infect 1.5m Londoners and kill off a lot of people. Excess deaths were actually higher in the affluent villages around northern cities in March 2020 than they reached for well over a year when it spread to those inner cities they locked down.

Other countries have shown that early and less onerous restrictions would have avoided the long lockdown and economic damage we then experienced.

Emilyontmoor · 29/12/2021 15:53

Iced If you're going to advocate something, the onus is on you to show it's likely to be beneficial

Well that works both ways and I think I will stick with basing my judgement on personal observation and scientific consensus.

As to masks being unpleasant, well in Japan it has been the norm to wear a mask if you have an infectious disease since the 1918 flu epidemic. Their collective cultural judgement is that it is a lot less unpleasant than doing nothing to prevent spreading your germs and viruses even if it is just the common cold. It’s a perspective that isn’t that hard for a westerner to adopt too.

IcedPurple · 29/12/2021 15:55

@Emilyontmoor

Iced If you're going to advocate something, the onus is on you to show it's likely to be beneficial

Well that works both ways and I think I will stick with basing my judgement on personal observation and scientific consensus.

As to masks being unpleasant, well in Japan it has been the norm to wear a mask if you have an infectious disease since the 1918 flu epidemic. Their collective cultural judgement is that it is a lot less unpleasant than doing nothing to prevent spreading your germs and viruses even if it is just the common cold. It’s a perspective that isn’t that hard for a westerner to adopt too.

I don't have a problem with wearing masks when you know you're suffering from an infectious disease. Mandatory masks for everyone are a different matter.
peridito · 29/12/2021 16:00

Could someone post a link to details explaining what actions will take place when the 400 a day hospital admissions is reached?

I've seen references to "400 a day" but know nothing about it .

Emilyontmoor · 29/12/2021 16:24

peridito This explains the likely scenarios. They are looking at London hospitalisations because London is ahead of the rest of the country and has reached the point where cases have had time to lead to hospitalisation. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/lockdown-another-will-new-covid-restrictions-england-boris-johnson-announcement-1371524/amp

Autumndays123 · 29/12/2021 16:27

@Emilyontmoor

Autumndays Well clearly you only see the sense you want to see. “Shut down the country” is a total straw man, we have vaccines so we are already suppressing the virus and hospitalisations.

I will put it in simpler words without any confusing numbers for you. London is suffering economic damage and high levels of hospital admissions as a result of an exponential rise in cases, currently concentrated in the younger age groups . Hospitalisations have risen 52% in a week and it is still behind the lag between infection, hospitalisation and death, particularly as it has been not spread to the most vulnerable parts of the population. It is early days and yet it is approaching the rate that even the politicians who are staking their political futures on libertarianism are conceding will require restrictions to protect the NHS.

The rest of the country, apart from Manchester, is yet to see the rise in cases. let alone the rate of hospitalisation. It is simply too soon to say that this is such a mild disease that with huge case numbers even a small proportion being hospitalised won’t cause the NHS to crash as it already looks set to do in London. Measures like restrictions on household mixing won’t cause the same level of economic damage that the high case numbers we are seeing in London already are. What is causing the damage apart from sickness absence and lack of footfall is the lack of any government framework to support our industries through this.

If you are looking to paint me as a lockdown nut you are far from the truth but I am seeing on the ground within my community the damage that high case numbers are doing. And that chimes with the scientific consensus.

Iced It is simple public health logic that if you limit the number of interactions as they have elsewhere it will slow down the rate of transmission, maybe not by as much as with other variants but even if it is just by 1%, 1% of the very big number of cases which Omichron is set to cause, will slow the rate down. I am quite sure infections flattened in the 20 something age group last week because they stayed home. We will see what happens when they all go out at the weekend.

There is a false comparison between Covid and Colds and Flu as if branding it as such somehow changes it’s nature. The fact is that if flu or another Coronavirus had the transmissibility and impact on the economy and public health of Covid it would be subject to infection control strategies as it was for Swine Flu in 2009, Hong Kong flu in 1957 (which killed my grandfather at the age of 45 ) etc . That was exactly what the (inadequate) pandemic response plans in place in 2019 were designed to do. Even the initial wild type of Covid was three times more transmissible than flu, we don’t know exactly yet but clearly Omichron is many more times transmissible than that.

There's nothing that I'm failing to understand. I'm not sure why you are trying to paint me as stupid and ignorant, when it's quite obviously you who lacks basic knowledge, despite how 'clever' you're trying to come across.

Look, Omicron is not a threat to the vast amount of people. What is a threat is endless restrictions, along with the ridiculous self-isolation period. I truly believe in the next four weeks or so we will see isolation being reduced further and further, until it's at a stage where there is no 'isolation'. I'm not sure why you think it's 'early days' with Omicron, it's been around for around 6 weeks now and hospitalisations are not anywhere near being alarmed about. You also have repeatedly fail to acknowledge that research has shown 65% of individuals in hospital with covid are just that, in hospital for other reasons and happen to test positive whilst there.

Your very poor attempts at trying to show how clever you are, fail to take account of any of the consequences of lockdown and to some extent, restrictions. We really do need to suck it up and get on with it and thank god, that looks like the way some countries are headed. I will not continue to restrict my life in any capacity because of a very, very mild illness that includes following any restrictions which may arise concerning household mixing etc. If anything, if I'm unable to meet my social needs in the office, restaurants or bars, I will be planning on even more household mixing than usual - and I don't think I'm alone in that

Emilyontmoor · 29/12/2021 16:30

Autumndays I am sure you are not, and I am sure there are lots of other people will do that but I will bow to the advice of the actually clever people.

onanotherday · 29/12/2021 16:40

Exactly....it might be mild for most...but if you pass to vulnerable person it could be very serious or worse. I'm shocked at the lack of understanding people are showing!🤦🏽‍♀️

FourTeaFallOut · 29/12/2021 16:42

@onanotherday

Exactly....it might be mild for most...but if you pass to vulnerable person it could be very serious or worse. I'm shocked at the lack of understanding people are showing!🤦🏽‍♀️
Which is true of every single "mild" virus since the dawn of time.
notoldjustpastyoung · 29/12/2021 18:40

Not feeling unwell does not mean you can't pass it on if the test says you have it.

Covidworries · 29/12/2021 19:28

@sheikhmaraca

Well today we have higher cases than France 🤷‍♀️

IcedPurple · 29/12/2021 19:30

[quote Covidworries]@sheikhmaraca

Well today we have higher cases than France 🤷‍♀️[/quote]
That's not correct.

FourTeaFallOut · 29/12/2021 19:43

Don't France have over 200k today?

Covidworries · 29/12/2021 19:50

I was told 180k in France and 183k in Uk
Not an official source for France so may be wrong either way both countries are still going upwards so neither on a good place