London

[JaceLancs]

Why isn’t London in a local lockdown or having different restrictions to other areas?
Last year some areas of country were under special measures for ages eg Bolton and Leicester
Why is it different now for London?
Regional prejudice and injustice as usual

[quote ThePlantsitter]@EasterIssland I do know this. Sometimes it doesn't feel like it though.

I think the North for example is horribly overlooked by the government but I 100% don't think Northerners have had it worse than Londoners over the pandemic - with the exception of Manchester which I know was in lockdown a LOT. I think it's been shit for everybody and we should try to be a bit nice to each other actually.[/quote]
Wasn’t it also Leicester that never managed once to come out of extra Tiers?

This is why I don’t support the Tier system. Some areas just get completely overlooked.

This whole thread reminds me though of when, in the summer, a particular poster told everyone it was “carnage” in Scotland from their vantage point of .. not in Scotland … never leaving their house even..

@Franklin12

London is very multi cultural. I used to live there myself. Some cultures refuse the jabs. That is what needs addressing. If people choose not to have the jab then so be it but put restrictions on the unjabbed.

I'm not sure it's only some cultures refusing the jabs, there is also a significant incoming community who may not be engaged with primary healthcare (hence low adoption of all vaccinations in Lambeth and Wandsworth).

Ditto a significant student community who may have been vaccinated in their home towns vs. in London.

It’s very simple, London isn’t locked down because hospitalisations are not yet threatening to overwhelm the hospitals. The vaccine decreases the chance of being hospitalised. Last year hardly anyone had been vaccinated.
It has nothing to do with London being treated favourably.

[quote ThePlantsitter]@EasterIssland I do know this. Sometimes it doesn't feel like it though.

I think the North for example is horribly overlooked by the government but I 100% don't think Northerners have had it worse than Londoners over the pandemic - with the exception of Manchester which I know was in lockdown a LOT. I think it's been shit for everybody and we should try to be a bit nice to each other actually.[/quote]
It wasn't just Manchester. It was large swathes of the north west. Parts of Lancashire were even included in the summer 2020 restrictions too. And then of course there's Leicester, who got even more of it.

So there are millions of people, mostly in the north and lots outside GM, who had a much worse time of it wrt restrictions than London last year, even given the Tier 4 Christmas. And it isn't a coincidence that this particular experiment was primarily inflicted on people outside the south east. However, London still shouldn't be in local restrictions now, because it would be an absolutely terrible idea. Both things can be true.

@generalh

I must be the only one wanting visit London next week then?

We've just stayed in London for a few days. (We only live 25 minutes away so the rates of infection aren't any different to where we live). Had a really nice time and it was easy to book hotels, restaurants etc last minute. We've had our boosters, one child had just had Covid and we wore masks where necessary.

What does this post even mean? London was on lockdown last Christmas because of the Kent variant. I know that because Christmas was ruined for us because of it, while everyone up north was enjoying their Christmas as normal.

@vikingonthefridge ' millions of people' Vs 'London'. Do you mean Londoners? Because the experiences are incomparable. I may have got the lockdown history wrong in terms of Manchester (and I may not) but in terms of experience of lockdown you would have to count how many live in flats, how near green space people are, how densely populated their areas are and how much public services were affected. None of which I can be arsed to do but I'm fairly sure LondonERS didn't have a better time than anyone else. Not counting Johnson et al who clearly don't count themselves part of any of this anyway.

data.london.gov.uk/dataset/coronavirus--covid-19--cases

The 15 Dec was the one the GLA chose, and no I dont know why.

They are usually the most up to date stats for London

Even if admitted for other reasons, maintaining 'red' and 'green' areas still takes up more resources, simply to maintain adequate separation

@WtfHuh1122

What does this post even mean? London was on lockdown last Christmas because of the Kent variant. I know that because Christmas was ruined for us because of it, while everyone up north was enjoying their Christmas as normal.

I'm probably remembering this wrongly but I thought the whole of England wasn't legally allowed more than two households for Xmas?

Whether or not that's Tier 4, I don't know.

[quote ThePlantsitter]@vikingonthefridge ' millions of people' Vs 'London'. Do you mean Londoners? Because the experiences are incomparable. I may have got the lockdown history wrong in terms of Manchester (and I may not) but in terms of experience of lockdown you would have to count how many live in flats, how near green space people are, how densely populated their areas are and how much public services were affected. None of which I can be arsed to do but I'm fairly sure LondonERS didn't have a better time than anyone else. Not counting Johnson et al who clearly don't count themselves part of any of this anyway.[/quote]
'Versus' was your term, not mine. I think that's a terrible way to look at it.

It is, however, absolutely undeniable that millions of people in the north of England and elsewhere, not all of whom were in Manchester, lived with harsher restrictions for much longer than those in London in 2020. I am in GM but you really should acknowledge Leicester and Lancashire too. I certainly don't think Londoners had a better time than anyone else, after all the majority of people in England don't live in any of the areas I mention, but the fact that populations outside London and the south east were the ones chosen to bear the yolk of experimental, poorly thought out local restriction policies is relevant and we will get nowhere without acknowledging that. We know for certain now that London should not be under local restrictions and that lesson was learned in Leicester and the north west.

In terms of overall experience, yes you certainly would have to count a great many things, and note that the parts of the north west affected were primarily areas of stunning deprivation.

@DaisyNGO no that’s not Tier 4.

London and a lot of the South East was put into Tier 4 on 20th December, announced the day before. There was a full lockdown with no non essential retail open, no household mixing whatsoever (even on Christmas Day) and a Stay At Home order.

@WtfHuh1122

What does this post even mean? London was on lockdown last Christmas because of the Kent variant. I know that because Christmas was ruined for us because of it, while everyone up north was enjoying their Christmas as normal.

Yep. We spent Xmas day just our household because those were the rules. Did an illicit outdoor present exchange with my Christmas when the rules change. Had ordered a massive bird we were eating for ages and in the afternoon took a walk to wave at my parents from their driveway.

@DaisyNGO I was in London and a couple days before Christmas Boris said we can't see any households at Christmas. For other parts of the country not in tier 4 you could see other households, I thought it was 3 but maybe I'm misremembering. But Christmas was definitely cancelled in London and SE England last year.

So OPs post makes no sense.

Do you remember the queues of traffic last Christmas, everyone trying to get out before we went into tier 4. Ridiculous. How can it possibly be enforced? There's not enough police to deal with the real crime let alone this.

[quote thewhatsit]@DaisyNGO no that’s not Tier 4.

London and a lot of the South East was put into Tier 4 on 20th December, announced the day before. There was a full lockdown with no non essential retail open, no household mixing whatsoever (even on Christmas Day) and a Stay At Home order.[/quote]
Sorry, perhaps not being clear.

I thought the whole country was in the same situation as London at Christmas last year.

I must admit, I didn't think we were at the phase of "stay at home" where you weren't even supposed to walk in the park with someone from another household - I thought that came a bit later.

What's the difference between Tier 4 and lockdown? I don't know if Tiers still exist.

You know what @VikingOnTheFridge, I have no desire to get into an argument with you about it. I felt attacked by the OP because she basically was attacking me as a Londoner. She had 'forgotten' that Londoners were in fact not allowed to mix last year and therefore did experience local restrictions like other places. That made me angry and defensive. I picked Manchester because my mum lives there and wasn't able to leave for months and months. As an ex northerner I understand that vast deprived areas exist in the North but I also know that in terms simply of space there is much, much more available to BE in.

I also know that the North is funded and treated appallingly by the government - but not by Londoners themselves. There are different difficulties in living in the non-central, non-conservative led boroughs. However you're right that I'm doing exactly what the OP was in setting London against everyone else so I'm going to bow out now.

Anyway I'm trying to

@ThePlantsitter

You know what *@VikingOnTheFridge*, I have no desire to get into an argument with you about it. I felt attacked by the OP because she basically was attacking me as a Londoner. She had 'forgotten' that Londoners were in fact not allowed to mix last year and therefore did experience local restrictions like other places. That made me angry and defensive. I picked Manchester because my mum lives there and wasn't able to leave for months and months. As an ex northerner I understand that vast deprived areas exist in the North but I also know that in terms simply of space there is much, much more available to BE in.

I also know that the North is funded and treated appallingly by the government - but not by Londoners themselves. There are different difficulties in living in the non-central, non-conservative led boroughs. However you're right that I'm doing exactly what the OP was in setting London against everyone else so I'm going to bow out now.

Anyway I'm trying to

I have no desire to get into an argument either and I don't think that's what this is.

The OP is completely wrong, putting London into regional restrictions now would be a shit idea. That's a given. I'd just hope we can all acknowledge that we learned that lesson from bitter experience in multiple areas in the latter half of 2020.

@DaisyNGO Tier 4 was literally invented on 19th Dec for London / SE and was a lockdown. No it wasn’t the same elsewhere because there was limited (2 households, Christmas Day only) indoor mixing outside of Tier 4. Manchester and the rest of most of the rest of the NW went into Tier 4 a few days after Christmas I recall and everywhere else went in during the beginning of Jan.
On 19th Dec in London I was still able to go to the hairdressers and do some last minute shopping (that was Tier 3) and then on 20th all that shut.

No I don’t think Tiers exist now.

@Tealightsandd

Lucky you OP. I got up for a wee and couldn't resist scrolling through here before settling back down.

So to answer your question. They're pursuing let the bodies pile up in London (and condemning many others to long-term loss of livelihood via Long Covid disability) because for several decades London has been the country's cash cow at the expense of Londoners.

London is the only region that pays in more than it gets back. One why reason London has, for years, been the epicentre of the public health housing and homelessness emergency.

Put simply, part-time and temporary people who work in London but have their main residence elsewhere (eg. most MPs) don't care about actual Londoners.

This

London had tighter restrictions on Christmas Day last year but that’s one day and I’d have taken that for a normal summer. Live on my own and wasn’t allowed anyone in my house bar 3 weeks in July. And Leicester had it even worse with not even a 3 weeks break. Especially frustrating when the rates at which GM was locked down in July were significantly lower than other areas in August who weren’t put under local restrictions.

It's also completely counterproductive for anyone in the north west to call for local restrictions on the grounds of fairness. Because in the long run we're always going to do the worst out of that, as the idea of confining the problem to some less important, less desirable area is inevitably going to be more attractive to those with power if we're the ones being restricted.

Not because Boris and co are bothered about the average ordinary Londoner of course. Perish the thought! But because the option of restricting them and leaving them to fester isn't viable in the same way as it is for us. Because they happen to be living where people with power also want to be, whereas we aren't.

So yeah ok, it's London at the moment who'd be the ones restricted, and they had it worst for a couple of weeks last Christmas too. But don't be fooled by that. If you advocate for localised restrictions OP, it'll be us they bite in the arse soon enough.

[quote thewhatsit]@DaisyNGO Tier 4 was literally invented on 19th Dec for London / SE and was a lockdown. No it wasn’t the same elsewhere because there was limited (2 households, Christmas Day only) indoor mixing outside of Tier 4. Manchester and the rest of most of the rest of the NW went into Tier 4 a few days after Christmas I recall and everywhere else went in during the beginning of Jan.
On 19th Dec in London I was still able to go to the hairdressers and do some last minute shopping (that was Tier 3) and then on 20th all that shut.

No I don’t think Tiers exist now.[/quote]
Ah right, so it was hospitality that shut on Wednesday or Thursday before the 19th...

I had been expecting it and so was the local pub we go to. He had some stroppy customers because nothing on the menu was available in the days before but he very sensibly ordered on the basis he'd be shut down at short notice.

*not nothing, I'm exaggerating! A limited menu, I should say.