Why have people forgotten February 2020 ?

[DottyHarmer]

When Northern Italy was in a terrible state - dreadful scenes of overrun hospitals and over 70s were told to stay at home if they were ill because they were being deprioritised for beds. In China the situation (that we could see) wasn’t thrilling either.

And now we have people - posters on here - saying that there’s no point in vaccines “because they don’t reduce transmission” and people don’t get that ill anyway.

I don’t think the world shut down in 2020 for a laugh, and certainly not for some nefarious purpose to which so many were privy but has never been revealed .

@placemats

*What are you advocating?

Vaccines or back to same actions as March 20?

It’s hard to tell from posts like this*

@MarshaBradyo

I can't be responsible if you lack the intelligence to understand. Obviously you come across as vulnerable and in need of safeguarding.

I wish you all the best.

Er what?

Are you quite ok…

Is this a joke otherwise you seem a bit unhinged.

Plus there is a minority of people who suddenly have forgotten history and decided after listening to Bob down the pub or a YouTuber that vaccines are not good/or they have a fear of a tiny needle/or consider themselves more knowledgeable than scientists and spout all sorts of bullshit about vaccines so they are determine not to help reduce the spread.

@placemats I'm a key worker who has worked in schools throughout, I was hospitalised with covid overnight, I had a family member in hospital (not covid) for 6 weeks close to death & could barely see them. My fil passed away in a care home & we hardly saw him leading up to it & I couldn't support my DH at the funeral. One of my own parents lives abroad so I also hardly saw them. It's ok for me to be fed up with covid

A gnat is more intelligent.

The irony....

I can't be responsible if you lack the intelligence to understand. Obviously you come across as vulnerable and in need of safeguarding.

Another fantastic contribution 😆

[quote mclaw]@Cornettoninja but the vast majority are acting collectively;

So far, more than 51 million people have had a first vaccine dose - some 89% of over-12s. Nearly 47 million - 81.5% of over-12s - have had both doses

100% is impossible [/quote]
Yes, I don't really get the drama on this thread.

British people, on the whole, have been very enthusiastic about vaccines, including boosters. The AstraZeneca vaccine was developed in Oxford, with considerable govt support, unlike in Europe where certain 'leaders' actively tried to undermine it. There are some 'anti-vaxxers' in Britain, but they are smaller in number than in many parts of Europe. The statistics support this.

@mclaw

A gnat is more intelligent.

The irony....

Mclaw not sure what is going on with that poster

Odd

it's just scary that they think we are the unreasonable ones 😱

anti-vaxxes are just basically viral creationists because they can't grasp the simple evolution of disease and how unchallenged mutations spread faster, evolve faster and eventually diminish vaccine success rate.

Just like explaining logic to a religious nut who thinks we planted fossils to trick them won't work neither does talking science to anti-vaxxers.

There's just no arguing with stupid (although I think some aren't even that stupid but rather just insufferable attention seekers who LOVE being different and reveling in drama regardless of who gets hurt which is even worse).

@SirChenjins

Note - I don’t agree with any of that btw.

That's good! I thought your account must have been hijacked!!

Having just come through breast cancer I have a slightly different view than I did back in Feb 2020. Add to that I have survived Covid twice. On a personal level I no longer fear Covid.
In two years covid has killed around 150000 people either with or of, jury is still out in that one, but cancer has killed over double that.
As a result of Covid all screening was suspended and many people have either delayed seeing their Gp or been unable to see them. We now have a much bigger epidemic looming. I asked my oncologist whether Covid had affected their clinics. He said that they are seeing the same amount of people but at much more advanced stage.
I’m on a cancer support group and already the new members who are awaiting their first appointments are seeing a massive bottle neck. Many are in the 2week pathway but waiting up to 6 weeks.
I don’t have any answers but in the next 2-3 years our nhs is going to an explosion of delayed cancer cases.
We know what we have to do, I’m afraid it’s now time to start taking responsibility for our own Covid risk. Insisting on “our human rights” and “I’m not giving up another family Christmas” is bollocks.
I hope that people don’t lose loved ones during this wave, but they will only have themselves to blame.
We have stayed in since DS finished school last week. We want to be able to see MIL & FIL later this week but will be taking every precaution.
I am not a cautious person and have worked throughout the pandemic as high risk frontline HCP. I will return to work after Christmas having ha 4mnths off but will be using full PPE again despite being fully vaccinated.
XA

Samuel Pepys diary records people during the black death ignoring the risks and living normally. One-third of the population died in England in nine months.
A lot of people are shit at risk assessments and not very bright.

Because the situation now is different.

@placemats

Sometimes I wish we could transport all those who are conspiratorial or just 'fed up' back to the Great Plague 1665-1666 and ask them to live with it.

Yep

A journal of the plague year. Daniel Defoe.

Have a read.

www.gutenberg.org/files/376/376-h/376-h.htm

@aliceca

Samuel Pepys diary records people during the black death ignoring the risks and living normally. One-third of the population died in England in nine months. A lot of people are shit at risk assessments and not very bright.

Have you altered what you do that much?

Obviously when you had to but outside those periods

@MarshaBradyo yes I have been careful. So normally I would have flown abroad at least once a year, I haven't since 2019.
But my point was even when very dangerous plague was killing a massive amount of people, some people still went out drinking and socialising as normal.

I think a lot of people don’t understand what those at the sharpest end of the restrictions have been through, in the same way that many people don’t understand what frontline HCPs have been through.

We're not in Feb 2020 any more. We have vaccines; the most vulnerable may have had 3 or even 4 doses by now. The hospitals now know what they're fighting and have better success fighting it too.

And the human costs of lockdowns are also huge. There isn't a "safe" option which those lockdown-haters are just too lazy to do. There are people dying of cancer and mental health issues. My kids have missed out on education and socialization. Lost years they won't ever get back. There are people going hungry and cold because they don't have work. A national debt which will burden all of us for another decade or two.

There is no safe option, and there comes a point when the costs of lockdown are greater than the disease, once the latter is mitigated by vaccines, facemasks, distancing, working from home, etc. There is a genuine need to strike a balance.

Most of us are doing our best, and assuming that those who disagree are stupid or selfish may be reassuring, but doesn't help see the bigger picture.

yes I have been careful. So normally I would have flown abroad at least once a year, I haven't since 2019. But my point was even when very dangerous plague was killing a massive amount of people, some people still went out drinking and socialising as normal.

I haven't flown since then because I have small dc & can't be bothered with the faff of testing/quarantine/restrictions etc. I still holidayed in the UK though b

Because if the human brain allowed people to live in fear for 2 years to that extent most people would have gone into mental breakdown by now.

Therefore people are selecting what they think (most likely on a completely unconscious level) so that they can cope and function. It’s not because they are “thick” “uncaring” “selfish” most people are just trying to cope the best they can. For some people coping will be denying everything, for others it’s trying to control what others do, for others it’s calling people thick because it makes them feel both better about themselves and therefore safer.

Interestingly (and finally) WHO are making a really big thing now about balancing the need for physical and mental well-being.

Treatment, preventative measures (inc but not limited to vaccine) have moved on since Feb 2020, and not to put too finer point on it, the numbers likely to end up dying from it have need reduced because many are already dead even without vaccines it’s unlikely we would see Italy 2020 no2.

Well, I doubt that anyone can be persuaded to go to out in a social setting now in London. It's spread to the burbs and shires as well. Not going to happen. Most people are imposing their own lockdowns and saving social occasions to meeting with family.

placemats I've been to London This week? Because everything I had booked on Central London this week has been closed early or cancelled. Theatre, museum and restaurants. Just one thing, carols at Albert Hall haven’t pinged me yet but their concert tonight is off so I expect it will. It is running through the 20-30 year olds at such a rate 2500 per 100k and still rising exponentially that the economy is on its knees already and “normal” life is only possible if normal is not going out except to shop, that is if you have not suffered financially as many are.

@Cornettoninja

Covid deaths are largely preventable if we lock down society and destroy the economy, but it is unreasonable to do so

…or get vaccinated

Your other examples of RTA’s and diabetes - we don’t just accept them, we do a hell of a lot to try and prevent unnecessary deaths and life changing injury from both. The costs of those prevention methods would likely dwarf what we’ve spent on covid if you started adding it up from when both were started receiving treatment on the NHS. Like a lot of aspects of covid, it isn’t the end result it’s the fact we have to deal with its consequences in a short space of time - economic and health. The two are too closely interlinked to not take into account both when measuring impacts.

Most of us have got vaccinated, and yet still people are crowing on about "needing" a lockdown.

A lot more could be done to reduce other deaths from those examples or any other causes of death, but there comes a point where the restrictions required would go beyond what is reasonable. Continued lockdowns are no longer reasonable.