Why have people forgotten February 2020 ?

[DottyHarmer]

When Northern Italy was in a terrible state - dreadful scenes of overrun hospitals and over 70s were told to stay at home if they were ill because they were being deprioritised for beds. In China the situation (that we could see) wasn’t thrilling either.

And now we have people - posters on here - saying that there’s no point in vaccines “because they don’t reduce transmission” and people don’t get that ill anyway.

I don’t think the world shut down in 2020 for a laugh, and certainly not for some nefarious purpose to which so many were privy but has never been revealed .

@Cornettoninja
"I’m not sure the UK has avoided it tbh, I think we’ve stage managed it better."

This. The death tolls in Italy and the UK as a percentage are pretty much identical.

The selfishness label is interesting. Is someone automatically selfish because they don't comply with lockdowns or don't want a vaccine?

I don’t think of vaccines and restrictions in same way

I think the assumption is if you are pro one it all must follow etc

I’m very pro vaccine - although again subject of choice is complex

I think some of it is denial. The uncertainty of what is happening is very frightening and so people cling on to ideas that are more reassuring.

People genuinely don’t understand the science - but they think they do. It’s called the dunning-Kruger effect. The less you understand something the more confident you are that your assumptions are correct. A better understanding is more nuanced and you realise more about what you don’t understand. www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/dunning-kruger-effect

@Cornettoninja

I think it’s a mixture of denial and ego.

Denial - ignorance is bliss; it’s much easier to believe that you’re not living a slow-motion disaster that doesn’t have any concrete answers or solutions.

Ego - apparently everyone is fully versed in immunology and infectious diseases and it’s highly insulting to suggest or imply that their ‘research’ probably isn’t up to the same standard as the majority of the worlds scientists and medics.

I’m honestly flabbergasted to live in a time when it’s acceptable for politicians to use the word ‘science’ like it’s a dirty word.

Agree with this

There is so much of the ‘I’m alright Jack attitude’ it sickens me tbh
Yes for some people COVID might be mild - just hope that if you get it you are one of the lucky ones. Last Jan/Feb death rates were so high, but very few people seem to remember.
A voluntary role I worked in Jan involved contacted COVID + people to check they were ok, needed anything etc. the amount of ambulances I had to then call for people chills me to the bone - I will never know if these people survived or not but hearing them gasping for breath will haunt me, also being told by ambulance despatch that there would be a long wait was devastating every time.

A friend of mine is in icu, early 30s - had covid in Oct thought mildly and seemed to make a full recovery, she has bacteria in her blood and double pneumonia - the also think the bacteria has reached her heart - she is unlikely to survive and has 3 young children at home, double jabbed.

I take it seriously, it would be fantastic if Omicron turns out to be milder, and that the vaccines hold out. But there just isn’t enough data yet.

@Duopuss81

I hate to say it, but I think loads and loads of people are just thick? And really selfish

I agree with this. Also a touch of the Brexit mentality - it could never happen here as we are superior and civilised and 'they' aren't.

It's not the same situation though

I don't think I am thick or ill informed. I am a Dr and have worked frontline throughout this and contracted Covid myself pre vaccine. Triple vax ed now etc etc

The situation now is different because of vaccines.
Even if the vaccines don't stop Omicron transmission they do stop serious illness so I am hopeful not to live through the horror that was last winter with people dying all around me. I think they'll be ill but they'll get through this time

If people didn't get vaccinated then they are at risk and they might still get very ill and that is their choice I guess

The sheer numbers will likely cause a bed crisis and a staffing crisis though.
Non Covid things will be cancelled again which is harmful and very painful to see people being denied treatment
That in itself is a good reason to get boosted and take precautions to minimise
that impact

But it won't be like Italy, New York or India again I don't think because of the prevention of serious disease via vaccines.

@DottyHarmer

When Northern Italy was in a terrible state - dreadful scenes of overrun hospitals and over 70s were told to stay at home if they were ill because they were being deprioritised for beds. In China the situation (that we could see) wasn’t thrilling either.

And now we have people - posters on here - saying that there’s no point in vaccines “because they don’t reduce transmission” and people don’t get that ill anyway.

I don’t think the world shut down in 2020 for a laugh, and certainly not for some nefarious purpose to which so many were privy but has never been revealed .

Most people in my circle (40's, 50's and 60's) have now taken the third shot (booster) and generally stay away from crowds and have reduced drastically their social engagements for Christmas and New Year.

We are all sick to death of this two faced government and a few of us won't comply if there is a lockdown- simply because there's no real evidence that those with booster , who wear masks and reduce their social circle , avoid crowds need one. They'll continue to see their small circle of friends and family , its sad that very conservative and law abiding people are doing this, but I put the blame on the shambolic leadership, Dominic Cummings nearly broke the country, I think these party revelations and back handers for PPE contracts have snapped many people.

I don't think I or my family would break Covid lockdown if one comes in, but I don't think we're in the same situation as 2020. Most of the country is vaccinated and as any scientist would tell you, Viruses burn out, they get weaker - they aim for maximum transmission (like a cold) that doesn't happen by killing your host.

Anyone with a decent education knows the virus is mutating into one of the many cold like Coronaviruses in that family of viruses.

A lot of hysteria, mis-information is spread about the virus I'd support a full lockdown for the un-vaccinated , not for the beleaguered British public that have done on masse, everything asked of them, watched their relatives die alone, cancelled christmas and taught their children on kitchen tables while trying to keep their jobs,

I think many, who aren't simply hostile by default, are just beaten down by the piss poor leadership on Covid. What is the point in even trying for as long as those at the top keep ballsing everything up, and those of us in the thick of it aren't safe at work anyway? I'm triple vaccinated and I test; that's the best I can do now.

@camelfinger

Things are different now. We know much more and the death rate is much lower than it was in 2020. Sadly winter pressures feature every year in the NHS, and people just tend to get on with life in most winters when there are critical incidents, cancellations and no beds.

This! And we have vaccines. We can't shut down permanently it's not how humans are meant to be, we are social animals.

If it weren't for vaccines, we'd still be dying of smallpox.

@IcedAbstinente

and i know it's only words on a screen, but tbh I think there are more out there IRL who actually think like that.

I don't think it is a new thing tbh. Vast numbers of people have never given a shit about vulnerable and disabled people and feel hostile towards them. All the threads I have seen on here over the years about "free" cars for the disabled, for example. The pandemic has emboldened such people to be even more overt.

It is horrible to contemplate.

I don't think most people have forgotten. But the situation is very different now given that we have vaccines and we know alot more than we did.

@IcedAbstinente I am so sorry to hear that and I totally understand not really getting over that.
I am cev and used to do lots of local community volunteering, especially with children. After seeing comments on social media from parents whose kids I have helped, I will never again volunteer. I can never forgive people for being so callous.

I did find it traumatic when we had a ward outbreak and everyone was infected and many patients died plus one of my colleagues was in ICU. I get sort of flashbacks to particular moments and experience a huge spike of anxiety when something triggers me to remember certain events that I can still see very clearly.
When this all came up again with Omicron I will admit I broke down and sobbed because it is harder and harder to face going back to it again
A lot of my colleagues have quit, gone back to other countries or retired and the rest of us are less willing to go above and beyond and throw everything at it. Not that I don't want to but I feel like I can't I have nothing left. Last time was the kind of blitz spirit stuff you can sustain in an acute crisis but now that it's on and in with no end in site I feel I have to hold something back or I can't keep going at all.
Hence I am on leave today
Plus I am not much use anyway as my son has tested positive
I will be wasting my annual leave on his isolation and be ready to go back and cover when it's up.
As long as my vaccines hold up and I don't get it too.

I guess I have to believe it won't be as bad as last time. The alternative is something I can't face.

I also think it's hard to sustain that level of fear for so long. Objectively I am worried about Covid, but not in the same way that I was because it's just been going on for so long now and it's not sustainable. A bit like we're all hyper vigilant in the immediate aftermath of a terrorist attack, but memories fade and we slowly become less aware of our surroundings the longer it goes after an attack

This is it in a nutshell for me, if I'm being brutally honest.

The human race is also hopeful so again it's normal to hope & think it won't be as bad. It's not stupid, humanity would also not survive & progress without hope.

Op are you more talking about vaccine take up or lockdown etc?

As my take on latter has changed but not vaccines

I actually think it's quite odd to expect people to think like Feb 2020. we know a lot more now & we have vaccines.

I think it is because many believe that:
(1) Vaxxed people transmit it just as much as the unvaxxed.
(2) A vaccine that is not 100% effective is as good as ineffective.

Both of the above are wrong wrong wrong. But can this be communicated to people?No.

acceptance of large, largely preventable, death tolls
But they're only "largely preventable" if we massively curtail our lives. RTAs deaths are largely preventable if we ban cars, but it is unreasonable to do so.
Diabetes deaths are largely preventable if we ban certain foods and enforce mandatory exercise, but it is unreasonable to do so.
Covid deaths are largely preventable if we lock down society and destroy the economy, but it is unreasonable to do so.

OP, the massive difference was that in Feb 2020 there were no vaccines and no treatments.

@Summersdreaming

For me, those scenes are so far removed from my experience.. everyone I know who has had covid had a cold, isolated, then cracked on as normal. It's hard to live in fear and compliance, for years, of something that the media is telling me to be scared of, but my own experience is telling me otherwise. Other people have had a very different personal experience, and are understandably traumatised by it, but I can't make myself be terrified of it when I'm not.

Yes this is absolutely true as well. The vast majority have only experienced covid as an inconvenience, or the non--unexpected death of an elderly relative. It is difficult to keep the level of fear up when you see with your own eyes, that for everyone you know its just been a cough for a few days.

I've always had 25% of people as ignorant and selfish or 90% where I live. It doesn't surprise me.
But I'm a lone parent so socialising went out the window many years before the pandemic which makes it easier for me.

@DockOTheBay nope. We could as in Asian countries wear masks in public when we are ill. We could abolish the ridiculous pressure on parents to send ill children into school. Basically having a far healthier attitude to illness would also protect people.