I'm DONE with Covid, omicron and want to get on with my life - is anyone else with me?

[coatilove]

Honestly at this point I'm done with it, I'm surprised people are complying so much with mask wearing and everything else - I thought the vaccine was freedom. Turns out I was wrong.

I've had enough - I'm not wearing my mask indoors and hope if there's a lockdown every business keeps its doors open and boycotts the decision.

I'm really surprised people are being so compliant, even if they have natural immunity and have been jagged (I have now had Covid and both jabs)

I can't be selfless anymore and keep getting boosters to protect others and stopping life, constant anxiety, life I feel should be going on now. Enough sacrifices have been made.

Aware I'll get flamed, but at the end of my tether with all of this now.

There are plenty of diseases that kill people, we have to accept the death rate now enough is enough.

If you've been vaccinated then what else do you intend to do? If you haven't then more fool you.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Genuine question. Why can’t you keep doing it? Fair enough if a jab means you are bed bound for 3 months each time. But if it’s an hour out your day and one day feeling sucky, why is that a hardship for you?

I have a needle phobia.

I've also had shoulder pain since my second jab which I obviously can't prove is linked but the timeframe definitely fits.

A lot of people have needle phobia. Including myself.

2 rounds of IVF soon sorted that though. Practice makes perfect.

@CovidMakesThingsHarder

Oh, and why are the death rates up for cancer etc? Because doctors and nurses are on their fucking knees treating covid patients and hospitals full of elderly “well” patients who can’t go to nursing homes or home as there are no carers. Patient coming in dying of lack of oxygen from covid needs seeing. Person with cancer “well” at home always out back. Then a car accident comes in but there’s no ambulances. This is what people need it see. Doctors aren’t bloody choosing not to see people, it’s fucking battle triage. And you’ll soon complain when your child’s ambulance CD-ROM falling off their bike doesn’t arrive, or it’s a 8 N’s wait and there’s no overnight operating as the surgeons are now on medical wards or off sick themselves. How do you go and get your nails done when the salon is closed as the owner has long covid and all the staff have covid?

It is utterly shit, but wishing it away does not help.

This.

@LookslovelyinSpringtime

This argument that operations are not going ahead because of Covid. Why? Are surgeons and specialists all working in ICU? Surely that makes no sense at all. They have special skills particular to their own field. ICU can’t be full of every doctor and nurse and specialist who would normally be employed elsewhere.

Some (a surprisingly high amount) operations can’t go ahead if there isn’t an ICU bed (and associated staff) on standby because of common risks associated with types of surgery and general anaesthetic.

The surgeons and specialists themselves are available but the ICU staff and beds are occupied with covid patients, who also can’t be mixed with other ICU patients so require their own ward.

I’m surprised (well not really) that it’s not yet been recognised that long term covid demands are going to have to be provided for even with vaccination gains. It’s been clear for a while that covid is going to continue to result in the same demands as a whole new specialism for a while now. We have cardiac wards, gastro wards etc. we will clearly need covid wards staffed by its own team. Note this isn’t taking into account the current surge caused by omicron, that’s a separate and urgent situation to what we’ve been experiencing up to now.

@LookslovelyinSpringtime

This argument that operations are not going ahead because of Covid. Why? Are surgeons and specialists all working in ICU? Surely that makes no sense at all. They have special skills particular to their own field. ICU can’t be full of every doctor and nurse and specialist who would normally be employed elsewhere.

Patients going for surgery need to have access to an ICU bed.

Do you think we should be carrying out complex surgery and crossing our fingers than an ICU bed isn't needed?

Sorry family - patient died post surgery as we had no capacity in ICU.....

*I think that the blocking of ICUs by unvaccinated covid patients has cost many lives.

I think that the general 'done' ethos of the British public contributes to the whole situation.

I don't think using the whole 'murderer' rhetoric was ever helpful, but I do think it's ok to call people out on selfishness, although I realise that's become a dirty word too.

I do know that my friend's operation was delayed because the ICU was full of people with covid, mostly unvaxxed. And I know she is now dead. I also know these things are nuanced, but I do not discount any links, no.*

I also don't think we can coerce people into making decisions re their own bodies by emotionally blackmailing them. I've had my vaccines but I couldn't tell you which patients in hospital have, or haven't, how do you even know that?

Sorry that your friend died, as I said, I've lost my mum during this pandemic so I'm not blasé about death but there is no point blaming anyone because it's unfair. Where is the line drawn?

"This argument that operations are not going ahead because of Covid. Why? Are surgeons and specialists all working in ICU? Surely that makes no sense at all. They have special skills particular to their own field. ICU can’t be full of every doctor and nurse and specialist who would normally be employed elsewhere."

During 2020, huge swathes of NHS staff were redeployed to work in Covid wards. Family members of mine who work in occupational therapy, so not even acute care, were working in Covid wards. I'm sure I remember a story about surgical theatres converted into Covid rooms due to lack of space. Not to mention those NHS professionals having to isolate.

And the big problem with the Nightingale Hospitals was that it's all very well having thousands of extra beds, but where is the staff to tend to the patients? The NHS is already chronically understaffed, particularly in nursing and compounded by Brexit.

but there is no point blaming anyone because it's unfair. Where is the line drawn?

I think that the line is probably drawn where most people perceive that action that could have been taken wasn’t.

Death is an emotive subject, people like to think everything that could be done was, not just in terms of treatment but for comfort and care. If they spot holes that could remotely be perceived as a missed opportunity they get angry, particularly when faced with others telling them it doesn’t matter.

Acceptance of inevitably is an evolutionary part of grief and not everyone gets there at the same time if at all. I think it’s unlikely that this will improve much whilst vaccines continue to give people good odds of recovery tbh.

Drawing from personal experience my df is currently dying (heart is past any intervention at this point) and now has covid. He’s been fine so far but I’ve been unable to see him for weeks because of visiting restrictions and covid outbreaks. I can accept that he’s nearing the end, I’m happy he’s been cared for but it’s much harder to reconcile that he’s alone and waiting for death without any physical comfort from family. Contrasting that with the death of my dm it’s clear that he’s losing out badly. If I was so inclined I could dish blame out quite easily but I suspect the length of time I’ve had to come to terms with reality is a major player in my outlook on the situation.

This argument that operations are not going ahead because of Covid. Why? Are surgeons and specialists all working in ICU? Surely that makes no sense at all. They have special skills particular to their own field. ICU can’t be full of every doctor and nurse and specialist who would normally be employed elsewhere

I haven’t quoted the poster again directly because I’ve mused on this further and think it’s an example of why there is so much frustration and clashes in outlooks.

This post demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding about how ICU functions. This is replicated across many different factors that are popular subjects for calling into question.

That’s not really anyones fault, we’re not required to be experts in everything but there’s an undercurrent that if someone doesn’t understand something it’s automatically wrong, overblown etc.

Are we really so fragile as a society that we can’t accept that sometimes experts and experience will give us directions that we won’t necessarily immediately see the point of but that doesn’t mean we should outright reject it.

It's hard to do business or be educated when you are dead though.

People do die though. An unfortunate fact of life. We have never in the history of humankind taken such drastic measures to limit deaths. We've never done that for any other illness, though there are many measures we could take if we really wanted to.

Are you surprised that people aren't prepared to keep this up forever? Really?

There are different levels of vulnerability. Different levels of appetite for risk. The effects of lockdown and restrictions have impacted people in varying degrees. Of course not everyone has the same priorities as you.

I have no problem with getting boosters, I will not expose myself to people if I have symptoms, I will test if I have symptoms, I will wear a mask in public indoor spaces (I'm not convinced they make much difference, but I have no problem with it).

But that's where I'm at. I will never keep away from close family and friends for the 'greater good' again.

@EmmaOvary

"This argument that operations are not going ahead because of Covid. Why? Are surgeons and specialists all working in ICU? Surely that makes no sense at all. They have special skills particular to their own field. ICU can’t be full of every doctor and nurse and specialist who would normally be employed elsewhere."

During 2020, huge swathes of NHS staff were redeployed to work in Covid wards. Family members of mine who work in occupational therapy, so not even acute care, were working in Covid wards. I'm sure I remember a story about surgical theatres converted into Covid rooms due to lack of space. Not to mention those NHS professionals having to isolate.

And the big problem with the Nightingale Hospitals was that it's all very well having thousands of extra beds, but where is the staff to tend to the patients? The NHS is already chronically understaffed, particularly in nursing and compounded by Brexit.

Yes but there isn’t the space for all these staff in one area surely? At the moment ICU is not overwhelmed and hasn’t been for months, yet routine surgery and appointments are not going ahead. GPs aren’t seeing people face to face etc.

@Madhairday

Very sorry for your loss.

My intentions don't matter. My sons SJA groups have already decided to close face to face meetings indefinitely (they only reopened here in October), the schools are streaming festive activites and aren't having parents or anyone at the Cathedral service, I've gotten an email to say meetings that have gone face to face for the last few months should go back online... My DS2 went to a panto earlier this month and that was basically the last plan my family had that didn't end up changed or canceled.

It sucks, but my intentions can't change anything and really, they're all doing what they can with the very limited resources available and local public health recommendations and calls from on high given. I may have mixed feelings on some of it, but I largely give them my support. The only near-complaint I've made is asking my area's SJA to check and reassure my DS1 about his Grand Prior's Award, as he was told before lockdown 1 that he was getting it at the next award ceremony and he became very low and worried it had been forgotten or lost when they reclosed (I do wish they'd done something over one of the summers for kids like him, even a socially distanced one would have done so much for him).

@Cornettoninja

This argument that operations are not going ahead because of Covid. Why? Are surgeons and specialists all working in ICU? Surely that makes no sense at all. They have special skills particular to their own field. ICU can’t be full of every doctor and nurse and specialist who would normally be employed elsewhere

I haven’t quoted the poster again directly because I’ve mused on this further and think it’s an example of why there is so much frustration and clashes in outlooks.

This post demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding about how ICU functions. This is replicated across many different factors that are popular subjects for calling into question.

That’s not really anyones fault, we’re not required to be experts in everything but there’s an undercurrent that if someone doesn’t understand something it’s automatically wrong, overblown etc.

Are we really so fragile as a society that we can’t accept that sometimes experts and experience will give us directions that we won’t necessarily immediately see the point of but that doesn’t mean we should outright reject it.

There's a difference though between people genuinely asking the above question and listening to and taking in the answer, and those who spout off these angry, rhetorical questions and then stick their fingers in their ears. Then post the same question the next time a thread like this comes up.

I heard yesterday from a horse’s mouth that the city hospital near me has re covid patients 80% unvaccinated. The 20% vaccinated are all elderly.

What is to be done? At what point is “bodily autonomy” allowed to dominate a hospital’s provision and endanger staff and other patients ?

A lot of people have needle phobia. Including myself.

2 rounds of IVF soon sorted that though. Practice makes perfect.

Oh what a great solution, I'll get pregnant to get over my fear of needles

If you have/have had a needle phobia (or any other phobia) surely you must realise there's no easy way of getting over it

We have never in the history of humankind taken such drastic measures to limit deaths. We've never done that for any other illness, though there are many measures we could take if we really wanted to
Are you referring to lockdowns here? Ignore if not - but there have been lockdowns before (well, nailing people's doors shut or creating that plague village). In the past, people didn't need to be prevented from moving about so much as they didn't move about anyway. And people had to go to their workplace or they would have starved. Things have changed.

I'm also very, very unhappy about lockdowns - living abroad I haven't seen my family since 2019, and I've lost work. But I can see the point of having them sometimes. For me the issue is more about how they are organised - how often, for how long.

Are you referring to lockdowns here? Ignore if not - but there have been lockdowns before (well, nailing people's doors shut or creating that plague village).

Perhaps localised. Not national.

And for how long?

@TheKeatingFive

Are you referring to lockdowns here? Ignore if not - but there have been lockdowns before (well, nailing people's doors shut or creating that plague village).

Perhaps localised. Not national.

Not in the UK, maybe. But that's thanks to lockdowns in other countries. "Mexico braced for an unprecedented nationwide lockdown after the government ordered most of the economy to shut and for people to stay indoors for five days. The nation of 111 million people will grind to a halt tomorrow until 5 May in an effort to stifle the spread of swine flu which is on the brink of becoming a global pandemic." www.theguardian.com/world/2009/apr/30/swine-flu-mexico-government-lockdown

@TheKeatingFive

And for how long?

In recent history a few days has been enough afaik. Because it did not become a global pandemic. This time it has.

I can't bear these threads because they're full of complete non sequiturs.

Yes flu kills people. Yes other things kill people. Other things don't spread so rapidly and to so many people. Doubling rate currently two days.

What do you think would happen to society if for a couple of months 30-50 per cent of the population was stuck in bed?

It's not just about deaths - the government has spent the last six months letting excess deaths happen as they know we're now entering the endemic stage and it has to be absorbed.

It's about babies being born at home with no medical care, people dying of heart attacks as no ambulance will come, no pain relief or hospice space for those dying of cancer. It's about no food in the shops as there's nobody to deliver it.

Christ almighty. Dealing with idiocy and selfishness is the most exhausting thing in this pandemic and is exactly what will lead to school closures next year, not the virus itself.

Mexico braced for an unprecedented nationwide lockdown after the government ordered most of the economy to shut and for people to stay indoors for five days

Oh that we were only taking about 5 days. It's been many months.

I don't think there's any equivalent of locking down vast numbers of healthy, low risk, uninfected people. Across the globe.

What do you think would happen to society if for a couple of months 30-50 per cent of the population was stuck in bed?

But that's not how it would unfold. People would get sick and the vast majority would be out of action for a week or so. Many are asymptomatic. There is no situation were 50% are out of action for a couple of months simultaneously. Unless covid turns into a totally different illness.

@TheKeatingFive

Mexico braced for an unprecedented nationwide lockdown after the government ordered most of the economy to shut and for people to stay indoors for five days

Oh that we were only taking about 5 days. It's been many months.

I don't think there's any equivalent of locking down vast numbers of healthy, low risk, uninfected people. Across the globe.

What country are you in? Here in Germany the lockdown eased off over the summer and only began again in October. (I think? Time flies when you're having no fun at all.)

No, we haven't done it across the globe before afaik, to this extent - during the Spanish flu there were some quite draconian measures, but it would have been impossible to stop people going out to work back in those days.

So the different approach today is a mixture of it actually becoming technologically possible to have lockdowns on such a scale, and the huge scale of the pandemic itself due to globalisation. You're right that it would not have happened like this in the past, before those changes came about.

I'm in ROI actually where we have been in strict lockdown for 9 of the last 22 months.

So the different approach today is a mixture of it actually becoming technologically possible to have lockdowns on such a scale

And this is part of the problem. Technologically possible, maybe. That doesn't mean it didn't come with colloidal economic, psychological and societal costs. Almost nothing has been done to actually assess that cost before making decisions. Forgivable when lockdown was touted as a short term solution to 'flatten the curve'. Not when we are lurching into it as a way of life.