Not allowed to do my sales job until fully vaccinated

[VioletUltraViolet]

I delayed getting my vaccination due to a genuine fear of vaccines and having already gotten Covid antibodies from having the virus. I have decided to get the vaccine now because I just want this crap over and done with and I accept my role in getting society back to a level of normality.

I am booked for my first dose today at 14:30 and second dose is booked for 9th feb 2022.

I am an estate agent. My work sent a group message to say that any unvaccinated staff can not conduct any face to face appointments until they are fully vaccinated. This means no opportunity to earn commission by listing properties or selling houses, so my salary will essentially drop from roughly 43k to 24k. This is because I earn so much from doing the appointments and 24k is my basic. I have a daughter to support and I know everyone is going to say it’s my fault for delaying my vaccination but I just can’t believe this forced vaccination is spilling out in to non medical non clinical work.

For context, I booked my vaccine last week before I knew about the work changes.

What’re people’s thoughts on this kind of approach? My vaccinated colleagues are shocked by this too.

You are dealing with lots of different people in their own homes and in your office.In your office there are lots of colleagues who are doing the same thing. Lots of opportunities for picking up Covid. I would not want anyone in my home in a professional capacity who had not had the vaccine. I would just have to accept that it is none of my business whether a buyer of my house or a seller of a house I was viewing was vaccinated which is probably why I am staying put for the time being . The drop in salary will be very difficult for you but as a former single parent any qualms I had about the vaccine would have been far outweighed by financial fears.

Just trying to catch up on replies - currently in the hour long queue waiting for my vaccine that I pre-booked online for 2:30……
I didn’t know you could bring it forward that quickly - it didn’t give me the option to do that when I booked it online. Why can you only get it sooner at walk in centres?

If I was buying a property I’d think it thoroughly irresponsible for an estate agent to expect me to spend time with them when they weren’t vaccinated. I’d like more businesses to make it clear whether their front line staff have been vaccinated or not.

@CatsArePeople

And on that rhetoric many conspiracy theories get founded!

except yesterday's conspiracies pretty much came true.

Ooh! Which ones?

Elvis and a double decker really are on the moon, the moon that man has not yet landed on?

But @WomanStillNotAFeeling why couldn't they do an LFT? Sureoy you are being hysterical? :)

Frankly, if I’d known an estate agent was unvaccinated and I’d need to be in an enclosed space with them for a period time, walking through my house to take in the property and then again with every viewing, I think I’d choose a vaccinated estate agent over you. I’m sorry to say, but that’s the truth.

I would feel different if vaccines were not available yet, or the number marginal or no highly infectious variant racing through the country. But that is no longer the case. Vaccines have been available for a very long time and it’s been quite clear that the antibodies from having caught it previously does not give you long term protection.

@AngelinaFibres I understand that. I just don’t get why people are telling me I should’ve anticipated this. My employer has absolutely not shown any hint of this at all until 4pm yesterday and since our government has constantly said they are trying to avoid vaccine passports, why is it so wild for me to assume that I wouldn’t be impacted?
I’m sick of everyone gaslighting each other. I guarantee I’ll now be told the government never said they wouldn’t introduce vaccine passports but I distinctly remember the rhetoric being that they really didn’t want to do that. And it’s only applicable now for crowds over a certain amount.

I assumed that since the NHS who work with clinically vulnerable people all day long have had a decent amount of time to consider what they will do now they’ve had the ultimatum, then the same would come for others where employment is concerned.

The funny thing is, at the beginning of this pandemic I bet I would’ve been called a conspiracy nut if I had said vaccine passports would be a thing, but of course now they are becoming common, it’s my fault for not assuming my employers stance ahead of time.

I just didn’t see this coming

You didn’t see this coming? You and other anti Vaxers CHOSE not to have it whilst others got on with it. Are you one of these people who thought the rest of us would give you here immunity?

Sorry, but these are the consequences of opting out of social responsibility.

@VioletUltraViolet

Just trying to catch up on replies - currently in the hour long queue waiting for my vaccine that I pre-booked online for 2:30…… I didn’t know you could bring it forward that quickly - it didn’t give me the option to do that when I booked it online. Why can you only get it sooner at walk in centres?

Because GP-led walk in centres are acting in line with the guidance from the manufacturers and common sense. Word of warning, you need a longer gap with AZ, you want to get Pfizer instead.

If you book via the national booking line (centralised), you'll have to wait for longer, and it doesn't sound like you can afford that.

Sorry, but these are the consequences of opting out of social responsibility.

Medical interventions were not part of the contract.

I guarantee I’ll now be told the government never said they wouldn’t introduce vaccine passports but I distinctly remember the rhetoric being that they really didn’t want to do that.

This is nothing to do with the government, it's a decision by a business to minimise the risk to their customers and staff. You, as a private individual, make your own medical choices and your employer, as a private company, makes it's own policy choices.

It might be a legally dubious decision because it effectively changes your conditions of work (salary) but since you've been employed less than two years that's moot. By all means be mad at the government for introducing that rule.

It's tough but unfortunately your choices are to last until feb or look for another job.

Ah yes. I’m opting out of social responsibility by queuing to for the vaccine as we speak
Makes sense to me.
To clarify - I booked this vaccine BEFORE the announcements from my employer. I am allowed to decide in my own time. Some of you are thinking so black and white. Life and people are not black and white and you cannot assume everyone who takes time to make a decision is crazy and morally corrupt. It’s fucking nuts.

What has a vaccine passport got to do with it?

The government haven't made this decsion, your employer has!

@CatsArePeople are you sure about that?

Childhood vaccinations like the 6 in 1 absolutely are part of our informal social contract - unless you have a very different definition of that to me.

Given we are in the UK, not, say Gemany where it is entirely different!

I'm sorry op but whether right or wrong this is now very common and I don't think you can do anything about it. And the idea of this was being discussed a year ago, it don't come out of the blue.
I myself am needle phobic so I'm not without sympathy and I respect your right to choose, but you need to abide by the consequences.

Op, you might not have been there for two years but is there an unvaxxed colleague who has who is willing to rock the boat so to speak?

I’m astonished that anyone thinks a unilateral change to your employment terms and conditions is something that you should just shrug your shoulders and accept! Especially when it affects salary.

Yes today it’s vaccines but what about tomorrow - once employers have gotten away with it once then they’ll try again and next time it might be something that affects them what is the next medical procedure your company might expect you to have?

Strength in numbers OP, see if your other unvaxxed colleagues are willing to group together.

Also, realistically, if you can’t make house visits or show houses - what are you doing to earn your £24k? (I know nothing about estate agents so this might be a stupid question).

Childhood vaccinations like the 6 in 1 absolutely are part of our informal social contract

Certain ones yes. Anf they've been for many decades. Not this.

@CatsArePeople

Childhood vaccinations like the 6 in 1 absolutely are part of our informal social contract

Certain ones yes. Anf they've been for many decades. Not this.

OK. So at what date do you want society to have been pickled in aspic?

Again - it's a bloody pandemic. Society moves with the times, etc etc.

What you are trying to make seem sensible is that nothing in society changes. We don't meet new challenges with new resonses, in law or via a sense of social responsibility.

Or is it just some things we shoudl ignore? And who is the arbiter of that?

[quote SofiaMichelle]@VioletUltraViolet

I have already had Covid and have antibodies.

You've said this repeatedly, but have you actually been tested for antibodies?

1 in 5 people who contract Covid don't have antibodies afterwards.[/quote]
I would really like to see some data on this.

I see it repeated on MN all the time and I think it comes from that Zoe app. I have never seen it backed up however.

I have never seen any data which suggests that recovered people are reinfected at statistically significant levels and none that demonstrates that they are vectors of transmission.

The emerging data is showing that reinfection is rare.

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101

www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00676-9/fulltext

DH works for a global bank. Their customer facing staff in other parts of the world have been vaxxed since July. The UK office was quiet but now feelers are being sent out with a view to warning staff. They may get sued but I should think they have legal advice.

I think this is unfair. There has been no forewarning on this and it drastically decreases your income. Even healthcare workers were given prior warning well in advance of any changes being made.

I would review your contract and contact the union if you're a member.

I’m astonished that anyone thinks a unilateral change to your employment terms and conditions is something that you should just shrug your shoulders and accept! Especially when it affects salary.

IANAL, so this is total specualtion. The wide lattitude given to companies for actions relating to public health may mean they've been advised it's quite legal. I suspect the answer is it's never been done (without notice) and would need testing in court.

Yes today it’s vaccines but what about tomorrow - once employers have gotten away with it once then they’ll try again and next time it might be something that affects them

Companies will always get away with what they can. The removal of worker protections of the last decade has already caused far greater injustices than this.

@VioletUltraViolet

Ah yes. I’m opting out of social responsibility by queuing to for the vaccine as we speak Makes sense to me. To clarify - I booked this vaccine BEFORE the announcements from my employer. I am allowed to decide in my own time. Some of you are thinking so black and white. Life and people are not black and white and you cannot assume everyone who takes time to make a decision is crazy and morally corrupt. It’s fucking nuts.

You are allowed to decide in your own time .Your employer is allowed to make decisions in their own time too. Your decision not to get the vaccine until you felt comfortable presumably caused discomfort to them, their customers and your colleagues ; who have been vaccinated for months .You have now chosen to get the vaccine but your procrastination has consequences.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing/antibody-testing-to-check-if-youve-had-coronavirus/

NHS guidance

From your links

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2

This is not peer reviewed and even a quick glance throws up some obvious questions - look at the comments

The Lancet says, as is obvious, that infection reduces infection risk and that with this novel virus we don't have the data to be anything other than optimistic about it

The BMJ one is more interesting, but still says that the risk reduction is time limited and was prior to the Omicrom variant.

I’m astonished that anyone thinks a unilateral change to your employment terms and conditions is something that you should just shrug your shoulders and accept! Especially when it affects salary.

Pandemic - much discussed

Temporary changes in legislation - much discussed

Permanent changes inlegislation - also much discussed.

Mainstream media has been covering this, when not obsessed by year old parties and other non urgent, grab that headline shite!

@VioletUltraViolet

Ah yes. I’m opting out of social responsibility by queuing to for the vaccine as we speak Makes sense to me. To clarify - I booked this vaccine BEFORE the announcements from my employer. I am allowed to decide in my own time. Some of you are thinking so black and white. Life and people are not black and white and you cannot assume everyone who takes time to make a decision is crazy and morally corrupt. It’s fucking nuts.

It is nuts OP

We are looking to move. I don't mind at all about the status of the staff. I got vaxxed, that's my business.

I would see if you can get any advice collectively, I'm sorry this is happening to you.

On a wider note, if all the madness means you get five minutes to look round a property that's going to be even more annoying.