Not allowed to do my sales job until fully vaccinated

[VioletUltraViolet]

I delayed getting my vaccination due to a genuine fear of vaccines and having already gotten Covid antibodies from having the virus. I have decided to get the vaccine now because I just want this crap over and done with and I accept my role in getting society back to a level of normality.

I am booked for my first dose today at 14:30 and second dose is booked for 9th feb 2022.

I am an estate agent. My work sent a group message to say that any unvaccinated staff can not conduct any face to face appointments until they are fully vaccinated. This means no opportunity to earn commission by listing properties or selling houses, so my salary will essentially drop from roughly 43k to 24k. This is because I earn so much from doing the appointments and 24k is my basic. I have a daughter to support and I know everyone is going to say it’s my fault for delaying my vaccination but I just can’t believe this forced vaccination is spilling out in to non medical non clinical work.

For context, I booked my vaccine last week before I knew about the work changes.

What’re people’s thoughts on this kind of approach? My vaccinated colleagues are shocked by this too.

@Beachcomber My DH is currently on his second bout of Covid (first was December last year). I don’t think reinfection is as rare as you think…

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing/antibody-testing-to-check-if-youve-had-coronavirus/

NHS guidance

From your links

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2

This is not peer reviewed and even a quick glance throws up some obvious questions - look at the comments

The Lancet says, as is obvious, that infection reduces infection risk and that with this novel virus we don't have the data to be anything other than optimistic about it

The BMJ one is more interesting, but still says that the risk reduction is time limited and was prior to the Omicrom variant.

But where is the data on recovered people getting reinfected and then going on to transmit the virus in statistically significant numbers?

I know of none. And I promise you that I'm open to reading it and adjusting my view.

If we are going to coerce recovered people into having covid vaccines (or punish them for not having them) there should be some decent data to at least attempt to demonstrate why this it at the very least a scientifically arguable position to hold. Because otherwise what we are doing is ideological and not medical.

And that is dangerous.

[quote Tuliptulip]@Beachcomber My DH is currently on his second bout of Covid (first was December last year). I don’t think reinfection is as rare as you think…[/quote]
I'm sorry to hear that.

I am not doubting that your DH knows he is reinfected.

However as we see people say time and time again in these discussions we need actual data and not anecdote in order to make big significant public health decisions and make decisions about people's freedom and right to earn a living.

If there is solid data on reinfection and community transmission in recovered persons then we can make a case for discriminating against them if they are not vaccinated. There are issues with false positives in PCR testing which are not much talked about but would need to be taken into account and we would also need to look at rates of reinfection in vaccinated versus unvaccinated people if we wanted to do a half decent job.

I know of no such data.

(I dunno what ACAS is, abbreviations for industries I don’t work in don’t interest me, not sorry 😄)

@NowEvenBetter

(I dunno what ACAS is, abbreviations for industries I don’t work in don’t interest me, not sorry 😄)

Are you in the UK? Do you work at all, in any industry?

ACAS is a national advisory service that employers or employees can use in any workplace dispute in any professi0n/industry.

How utterly ridiculous . The world has gone mad. She is not some bio weapon because she is not vaccinated . She has had covid and will have some antibodies and is willing to test . Both South Africa and US have openly referred to omicron as a variant of the vaccinated as it’s going through the vaccinated . Therefore you are highly likely to get from someone vaccinated but if you are vaccinated then you should be fine . So stop worrying about other people !

Should estate agents banish kids as they are dirty and not vaccinated ?

I find this all so terribly distressing. Being vaccinated does not prevent you from passing it on. Being vaccinated does not stop you from catching it. Of course it lessons the effects. But we are now coming into a soon to be dominant variant that is much more mild than delta And for most people equivalent to that of a cold. 3 years ago would we go mental and force everyone to be vaccinated against a cold?

Those people who have chosen not to be vaccinated - the vast majority of which have either evaded covid, or dealt with it at home are potentially (as in the case with OP) having to triple vaccinate against their will against a soon to be milder variant just so they can work and earn a living and potentially go on holiday, dine in restaurants and attend concerts.

Now it seems like a case of vaccinate in order to maintain the status quo and be able to work and live their lives as they did prior to the pandemic. It makes me furious.

A medical intervention isn't a public service in that sense though, it is a medical procedure on a person's body and some people genuinely can't be vaccinated for valid medical reasons. Should those people be barred from working in any job that is customer facing? This might not be op 's situation but those people saying they wouldn't have anything to do with an unvaccinated person seems crackers because one individual isn't going to change your own risk profile by any percentage points worth noting. Its the vaccinated population en masse that makes that difference, one individual here or there is a drop in the ocean.
I am pro vaccine, am fully vaccinated but totally support people's right to choose because in all countries where vaccines are strongly coerced onto the public have far greater vaccination resistance than those countries who just inform and educate.

There is some very big old discussion on mandatory vaccines and arguments against them and vaccine passports on live from the commons right now on Sky. Seen most people speaking are against it and have their heads on straight in comparison with the rest of the gov't.

@WineGetsMeThroughIt

There is some very big old discussion on mandatory vaccines and arguments against them and vaccine passports on live from the commons right now on Sky. Seen most people speaking are against it and have their heads on straight in comparison with the rest of the gov't.

'Very good discussions' I meant.

I too support people's right to choose. That is, my right to choose who enters my home. You can choose to vax or not. I can choose whom to hire. Yay free choice! That isn't coercing them. They can choose not to work for me. Some did actually.

Yes, I already risk Covid by going to the supermarket. But that is a risk I cannot avoid. Plus am only there for 10 minutes. If I can avoid an unvaxxed person in my home, I will. Why ever not?

OP are your employers also going to insist that they will only deal with vaccinated house sellers/buyers too or will they turn down any business from unvaccinated people in order to protect their staff??

As a solicitor OP I would consult a specialist in Employment Law about this. I'm not convinced that this would stand up to a legal challenge, and even the prospect of it might pursuance your employer to back down.

@Lilifer funnily enough, no they aren’t.
We are not allowed to ask people’s vaccination status.

Also where does it end? How many vaccines can employers insist you have, a booster every year? Every six months?

All the legal articles I've been reading for the last two years say that most employers should not mandate vaccination for their employees UNLESS the government make it mandatory for the population at large. Obviously front line NHS/care workers are different, but they have been given time to comply. More time than an estate agent. The OP's employers are massively overstepping.

Pursuance?? Persuade I meant 🤨

They can RECOMMEND that employees have vaccinations, but not mandate it.

[quote VioletUltraViolet]@Lilifer funnily enough, no they aren’t.
We are not allowed to ask people’s vaccination status.[/quote]
How interesting 🤨

[quote VioletUltraViolet]@Lilifer funnily enough, no they aren’t.
We are not allowed to ask people’s vaccination status.[/quote]
I think you could drive a coach and horses through this one fairly easily. Would you even consider a solicitors letter? It might be worth the cost of that alone if they reverse this edict as a result of a legal query...

I think it's absolutely mad. Sorry this is happening to you OP.

"
All the legal articles I've been reading for the last two years say that most employers should not mandate vaccination for their employees UNLESS the government make it mandatory for the population at large. Obviously front line NHS/care workers are different, but they have been given time to comply. More time than an estate agent. The OP's employers are massively overstepping."

They really are. I would not be accepting this without some level of push back.

I'm sorry that this has happened to you it does seem unfair and I'm worried about people being effectively forced to get vaccines which should be personal choice.

@ElftonWednesday

They can RECOMMEND that employees have vaccinations, but not mandate it.

So how come the nhs can? I’m not been argumentative, am genuinely interested…did the govt pass a special law?

I'm sorry as this must be a great shock. However, I'm with your employer on this and surely you must have thought about the consequences of not having a vaccination? Don't "just assume" that because you're in a particular line of business it won't affect you.

Everyone has a choice as to whether they have the vaccinations or not. BUT...they must also accept the consequences if they choose not to. I don't want to be dealing with people who aren't vaccinated, I don't care if they are NHS workers, shop assistants or even street cleaners...just get your bloody vaccination. It isn't just about you, it's about reducing the risks to others, reducing the burden on society as a whole and minimising the spread of the virus so that another, even worse variant doesn't get a chance to come into being.

Glad you've finally taken the decision to have the jabs, you'll need to take the hit until February.

The government is the employer, well, the state, with the NHS. The buck stops with them, anyway.