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Not allowed to do my sales job until fully vaccinated

388 replies

VioletUltraViolet · 14/12/2021 10:57

I delayed getting my vaccination due to a genuine fear of vaccines and having already gotten Covid antibodies from having the virus. I have decided to get the vaccine now because I just want this crap over and done with and I accept my role in getting society back to a level of normality.

I am booked for my first dose today at 14:30 and second dose is booked for 9th feb 2022.

I am an estate agent. My work sent a group message to say that any unvaccinated staff can not conduct any face to face appointments until they are fully vaccinated. This means no opportunity to earn commission by listing properties or selling houses, so my salary will essentially drop from roughly 43k to 24k. This is because I earn so much from doing the appointments and 24k is my basic. I have a daughter to support and I know everyone is going to say it’s my fault for delaying my vaccination but I just can’t believe this forced vaccination is spilling out in to non medical non clinical work.

For context, I booked my vaccine last week before I knew about the work changes.

What’re people’s thoughts on this kind of approach? My vaccinated colleagues are shocked by this too.

OP posts:
Mulhollandmagoo · 14/12/2021 13:54

*Are you sure this is correct?

I struggle to see why an employer would mandate that you can't work until February, when even NHS workers have been given until then to be vaccinated, to allow for appointments to be booked and the correct time gap between jabs.

Who's the employer?*

I'd definitely push this point, I know they've said it's with immediate effect, but NHS staff have been given until 1st April, they should be giving you adequate time to actually go and get your vaccine, earning half a salary for 3 months seems really unfair

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 14/12/2021 13:55

I am just shocked that they are going to these lengths with no warning

Have you lived in a cave for the past year?

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 14/12/2021 13:57

@RunAwayNow

While I have sympathy with your employer's stance, I would also suggest you get some legal advice on whether they're allowed to do this, especially with no notice.
It isn't without notice though. I work with estate and letting agents. I am self employed and EVERY agency has informally asked about my vaccine status with a couple of the larger chains advising that they be asking officially in the very near future.

The industry ran a few petitions over the last year to get them onto the priority list for vaccination - they failed but nobody in the ondustry could be unaware of the protected discussions with the government about how they could consitnue to work safely.

ARLA conference made vaccinations mandatory for entrance

All agents were advised by their regulating bodies to have all staff on the NHS App and to comply and, since restrictions eased, advised thet remain additionally vigilant.

It's no surprise, or shouldn't be, to anyone in the industry that many agents are taking this step.

And it is perfectly legal, if they are careful to fully comply with employment law

www.nelsonslaw.co.uk/employer-covid-19-vaccine/

And, as OP said, she hasn't been there for 2 years yet, So she can be let go with ease.

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 14/12/2021 13:59

@NowEvenBetter

See who hasn’t bothered reading OPs replies 😁 OP has spoken to a union, and Breach of Contract does not apply. HTH
Ah the irony, she isn't a union member but has spoken to ACAS
HoardingSamphireSaurus · 14/12/2021 14:01

@Mulhollandmagoo

*Are you sure this is correct?

I struggle to see why an employer would mandate that you can't work until February, when even NHS workers have been given until then to be vaccinated, to allow for appointments to be booked and the correct time gap between jabs.

Who's the employer?*

I'd definitely push this point, I know they've said it's with immediate effect, but NHS staff have been given until 1st April, they should be giving you adequate time to actually go and get your vaccine, earning half a salary for 3 months seems really unfair

They aren't mandating that she cannot work. Just that she won't be going out into clients properties.

They could decide to ask other staff to share commission in the interim, maybe OP could do a colleagues admin too. I know of 2 agents who are doing this because one of them is vulnerable and their employer, a national chain, has agreed to the temporary compromise with the understansing that it could become permanent.

CatsArePeople · 14/12/2021 14:01

Personally I find the mollycoddling of the unvaxxed disgusting, but we can each have our own opinions in our own houses, two years into this pandemic.

Are you that hysterical about people being vaccinated/tested for tuberculosis? A myriad of other infectious and potentially deadly illnesses? Or just this one?

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 14/12/2021 14:02

In a pandemic @CatsArePeople?

Just this one is enough, surely?

Dieselweasel · 14/12/2021 14:05

I support your employers position in the long term but it does seem very unfair to give you no notice of this requirement. However, because this part of your income is commissions-based, you may have fewer rights (I don't know!). I agree with others, you need to consult your union, ACAS or an employment solicitor.

As a first line, speak to your employer and ask if a reasonable compromise can be reached, for example, would they be satisfied with daily negative LFTs and proof of your antibody results?

DraigFach · 14/12/2021 14:05

I can't say I'm surprised that a business that makes it's money by sending folk into people's homes is basically implementing a 'covid pass' style of working for those members of staff. A blanket policy means it's easy for them to make the claim company wide that only vaccinated persons will be at the property. I wouldn't be shocked to see the big companies that send out gas engineers etc attempting to do the same although maybe not British Gas, their engineers are completely furious with them already

However, I think the lack of formal notice is poor form. It's possible with a great deal of patience to queue for walk-in appointments and with the reduced timeframe of 3 weeks to have everyone 2-vax compliant within a month. That at least would give those eligible for vaccination a true option to sort it out before the deadline rather than immediately penalising someone who has been hesitant. Sorry you're in this position OP, it really doesn't feel fair.

JanisMoplin · 14/12/2021 14:06

@CatsArePeople

Personally I find the mollycoddling of the unvaxxed disgusting, but we can each have our own opinions in our own houses, two years into this pandemic.

Are you that hysterical about people being vaccinated/tested for tuberculosis? A myriad of other infectious and potentially deadly illnesses? Or just this one?

Lol. This was a very bad example. Because I had to get tested for TB and many other diseases before I entered this country. Which I did. I didn't whine and complain that I had anecdotes to show that vaxxed people transmit TB and other illnesses too.

Are you unaware of how many hoops brown and black people have to leap through to enter this country or get even tourist visas?

Dasher789 · 14/12/2021 14:08

I think is is terrible op. Being vaccinated should be your choice. I hope you are okay and I am sorry you are in this position.

As above, I fundamentally disagree with vaccine mandates however, if they are going to do it, why not make you should have had a vaccine within x months. If op takes a vaccine tomorrow, she is fully vaxxed after the initial 2 week period. The only reason for a 2nd and a 3rd (and so on) is because the so called immunity wanes.

Nanny0gg · 14/12/2021 14:10

@VioletUltraViolet

I understand and respect that opinion. Maybe I am naive, but I would never have predicted it would affect my income considering I do not work in a clinical role. My daughters nursery fees are £900 a month and I rely on earning consistent commission.

It’s just a shock as I won’t be classed as fully vaccinated until Feb.

So bring it forward.
HoardingSamphireSaurus · 14/12/2021 14:11

so called

Mmmm! Smile

TractorAndHeadphones · 14/12/2021 14:12

While the short notice is unfair you can’t say you didn’t see this coming.
queue for a walk-in?

CatsArePeople · 14/12/2021 14:14

Are you unaware of how many hoops brown and black people have to leap through to enter this country or get even tourist visas?

International travel/ immigration is a very different kettle of fish from everyday business.

FflosFfantastig · 14/12/2021 14:19

Op I think it's awful of them.
You shouldn't be bullied into having a vaccine if you don't want it. It is bullying as it is taking your ability to earn money away from you and they are technically inflicting a pay cut on you.
Don't make it easy for them OP! They are the ones bring ridiculous.

thepastisanothercountry · 14/12/2021 14:22

OP I can see their argument and I think you should get vaccinated although offering the alternative of a LFT before appointments may be equally reasonable.

However I can understand you feeling upset. I have a dreadful phobia of the dentist and it takes really nasty and prolonged (over a week) toothache to drive me there. If my employer said no regular dental check-ups = halving salary I'd be distraught. Well done for getting an appointment.

Volhhg · 14/12/2021 14:23

Agree that you need to seek advice about this as it's doubtful a clause about vaccines will be in your contract. Whether people agree with it or not is irrelevant. This has been happening in the states and so far favour has been on the side of the employee. We shall see how this pans out with unions here and we may see a significant turn against mandates from left spectrum politics

OnlyAFleshWound · 14/12/2021 14:24

@CatsArePeople

Personally I find the mollycoddling of the unvaxxed disgusting, but we can each have our own opinions in our own houses, two years into this pandemic.

Are you that hysterical about people being vaccinated/tested for tuberculosis? A myriad of other infectious and potentially deadly illnesses? Or just this one?

How many people died of TB in the past year in the UK?

Also, I am vaccinated against it, as I suspect are many/most of you.

godmum56 · 14/12/2021 14:24

@FflosFfantastig

Op I think it's awful of them. You shouldn't be bullied into having a vaccine if you don't want it. It is bullying as it is taking your ability to earn money away from you and they are technically inflicting a pay cut on you. Don't make it easy for them OP! They are the ones bring ridiculous.
every adult has choices and choices have consequences.
HoardingSamphireSaurus · 14/12/2021 14:26

About 350...

CatsArePeople · 14/12/2021 14:29

Also, I am vaccinated against it, as I suspect are many/most of you.
I am vaccinated against TB, however, in none of my jobs i've been asked about it.

every adult has choices and choices have consequences.
choice is - do you want tea or coffee? Loss of income is blackmail.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 14/12/2021 14:31

Loss of income is blackmail.

And on that rhetoric many conspiracy theories get founded!

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 14/12/2021 14:31

I think your employer is on very shaky ground legally and this could be challenged but as you have less than two years service you aren't in a position to get heavy with them.

I would recommend that you join a union urgently. Most won't help with pre-existing issues but with an employer who behaves like this you are likely to require their help in future and it will be money well spent.

In the meantime, I would try to find out if any colleagues with two years service are in your position and whether they plan to challenge it. Encourage them to seek legal advice.

Assuming your employer already knows that you have only had one dose I would proceed as follows (I am not an employment lawyer though).

When you get to two weeks post vaccine ask your employer (by email or letter) if you can return to full duties as you are now fully covered until you are due for your next dose. They will probably say no unless they are getting cold feet but you have a record in case you need it and can show you were keen to get back to full duties.

Book your second dose ASAP, the waiting time has been reduced now.

After your second dose email and explain that you have now completed your primary vaccination course and make a request by email to return to full duties. If this is refused speak to your union for legal advice, but as you will still be under two years service your options are likely to be limited unless there is discrimination or something as a factor.

Book your first booster ASAP and again request that you are returned to full duties once vaccinated, and seek advice if refused.

Keep evidence of everything in case you need it in future. While it may not look as though you have any options legally at this stage this could change as things develop so think ahead. Communicate in writing, and keep copies. Keep in touch with other employees in similar situations, encourage them to keep records and to seek legal advice. If any have more than two years service then they may be able to mount a challenge that can help you all. Make it clear in all communication that you are willing to do regular LFTs as a stop gap.

I would also start applying for other jobs, this could be an attempt to push you out.

Also consider whether there are enough staff to do all the work or whether this will leave them short as this will affect your bargaining power. If it will leave them short an arrangement for you to pick up office based tasks for a colleague to enable them to pick up your client facing tasks with commission being split might be an option, especially if you make it clear that you are getting vaccinated and are keen to get back to full duties.

CatsArePeople · 14/12/2021 14:33

And on that rhetoric many conspiracy theories get founded!

except yesterday's conspiracies pretty much came true.