Not allowed to do my sales job until fully vaccinated

[VioletUltraViolet]

I delayed getting my vaccination due to a genuine fear of vaccines and having already gotten Covid antibodies from having the virus. I have decided to get the vaccine now because I just want this crap over and done with and I accept my role in getting society back to a level of normality.

I am booked for my first dose today at 14:30 and second dose is booked for 9th feb 2022.

I am an estate agent. My work sent a group message to say that any unvaccinated staff can not conduct any face to face appointments until they are fully vaccinated. This means no opportunity to earn commission by listing properties or selling houses, so my salary will essentially drop from roughly 43k to 24k. This is because I earn so much from doing the appointments and 24k is my basic. I have a daughter to support and I know everyone is going to say it’s my fault for delaying my vaccination but I just can’t believe this forced vaccination is spilling out in to non medical non clinical work.

For context, I booked my vaccine last week before I knew about the work changes.

What’re people’s thoughts on this kind of approach? My vaccinated colleagues are shocked by this too.

[quote Beachcomber]@HoardingSamphireSaurus

Might I suggest that you spent less posting space on telling me what you think I think and how little I understand (or admonishing me for understanding!?) and a little more on fleshing out your own arguments. I'm only saying that as all I've got from your posts so far is that you think I'm wrong but I don't even know what you think I'm wrong about let alone why. [/quote]

@HoardingSamphireSaurus Not quite "why bother", as I do think that for those vulnerable to serious illness from covid a booster every six months makes sense, given what we know about persistence of the protection it gives.

For the rest of the population, I am not so sure the rush for boosters now is sensible (but someone has obviously won the argument). I'm actually hopeful that the novavax jab will be better for longer term immunity, and I don't know how willing people will be to have four (or five or six) doses of up to three different vaccines!

When did it become ok to treat people like actual lepers?

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

(Also not sure about the first quote you've highlighted, as to me that reads as though they expect a booster to have much the same result as first and second doses, no?)

Our data may also inform expectations for the immunological outcomes of booster vaccination.

No. I read that as meaning that all of their questions, queries and initial assumptions would feed into other data about the booster. Not that it had an answer or would be definitive. It's that 'may' again. It might be of interest if it pans out on a larger cohort, longitudinal study. It could be used as supporting data for something like REACT-2

Right...it may. "It might be the case that what we're seeing now (decline in antibodies, relative persistence of B-cells) will be seen with further boosters. It seems like we're agreeing again.

[quote VioletUltraViolet]@AngelinaFibres I understand that. I just don’t get why people are telling me I should’ve anticipated this. My employer has absolutely not shown any hint of this at all until 4pm yesterday and since our government has constantly said they are trying to avoid vaccine passports, why is it so wild for me to assume that I wouldn’t be impacted?
I’m sick of everyone gaslighting each other. I guarantee I’ll now be told the government never said they wouldn’t introduce vaccine passports but I distinctly remember the rhetoric being that they really didn’t want to do that. And it’s only applicable now for crowds over a certain amount.

I assumed that since the NHS who work with clinically vulnerable people all day long have had a decent amount of time to consider what they will do now they’ve had the ultimatum, then the same would come for others where employment is concerned.

The funny thing is, at the beginning of this pandemic I bet I would’ve been called a conspiracy nut if I had said vaccine passports would be a thing, but of course now they are becoming common, it’s my fault for not assuming my employers stance ahead of time.[/quote]
I agree with everything you've said op. The whole covid issue has become a political /social hot potato more than a medical one and it's causing people to get things massively out of perspective.
In no other circumstances would anyone think it was OK for an employer to make an overnight decision to move the goal posts in such a way that your income drops off a cliff without warning or putting interim measures in place like daily testing until you get sorted.
Suddenly this more than OK and you are a fool for not expecting it, according to some here!

Whether to vaccinate or not being desirable is a different issue and people don't seem able to separate the two questions. I find this witch hunting atmosphere really alarming and makes you see how entire societies can be turned on their own.
I'm glad you were able to get your second dose so quickly but really feel for you the nasty experience you have had in how it was dealt with and people endorsing it.
I believe vaccinations help our community from overloading hospitals, I don't believe we should approve employers being draconian about it in the way this one has been.
If empliyers want to make a new requirement that drastically alters your income, give notice and provide a bridging measure is normal in any situation until the word covid gets mentioned, then its anything goes judging by some of the replies here. 😔

Or without putting interim measures in place that should say.

I got vaccinated because I wanted to be and because i believe it's the right thing to do. However I am self employed in an industry where people who employ me want guarantees that I'm vaccinated. If I wasn't the work would go to colleagues/competitors. I understand their position, and in some industries where face to face contact is necessary it is right that the client can make the choice.

Is it also right that am employer who was fine with it yesterday can decide overnight its not fine today?

I'm fully vaccinated and have had booster.

I'm very pro vaccine.

But I don't agree with this stance. For those of us pro vaccine we still have a choice. Those anti vax are having their choice essentially removed in some cases.

And for a vaccine we know has limited shelf life in working it's a very slippery slope.

I would go off sick and spend my time figuring out how to take them to tribunal and get a pay out from them.

@Cyrilgoggin

I got vaccinated because I wanted to be and because i believe it's the right thing to do. However I am self employed in an industry where people who employ me want guarantees that I'm vaccinated. If I wasn't the work would go to colleagues/competitors. I understand their position, and in some industries where face to face contact is necessary it is right that the client can make the choice.

Why is fine that somebody should be able to use your private medical information to make a judgement on whether or not to employ you? It's discrimination surely? If they can judge you on vaccination status then why shouldn't they be told about all medical conditions that you have - i.e. HIV, hepatitis, any long-term chronic conditions/disabilities that could impair your performance etc? As we now know, people who are vaccinated can catch and transmit Covid. The only way other people can protect themselves from it is to have their own vaccination. We should not be allowing employers to trample all over laws that have been put in place over many years to protect employees. They're in the wrong & I'm hoping many of them will be dragged through the law courts in the very near future!

I hope so nojudgementhere because this is a very unpleasant direction for things if not. Anything goes if it's for covid and making social pariahs out of people is not right. In this country we have historically had very high vaccine uptake without any need for coercion because we have generally a well educated population and trust in authority. Those countries that don't have that have relatively poor vaccine uptake.
This whole thing started with us needing to prevent too many people catching it all at once so as not to overwhelm our health service, but it feels like it's becoming something else reading some of the replies on here.

Nojudgementthere. I'm self employed so have some more leeway than if I was employed. I'm fine to confirm that I am vaccinated, but if I wasn't happy to share that information I can make the choice not to, recognising that it would jeopardise my chances of getting work. I'm in an industry where it's almost certain that clients will prefer to work with someone who is vaccinated. Ultimately they make a choice of who to work with. If I didn't want to be vaccinated I may need to think about another role. I agree that makes things very difficult for anyone unvaccinated but I don't know what the answer is. It's ultimately client choice.

I agree it's very different if someone is employed and employee rights need to be examined and protected where necessary. It's a complex situation.

@Cyrilgoggin - I understand and I'm not blaming you for having to go along with the madness! I just wish everyone could stop pandering to the people who are trying to impose this kind of illogical discrimination though as the more it is tolerated the more it will persist.

So - this morning I have received another group email from head office saying that they are changing the rules, and that negative lfts will be required 3 times a week alongside an NHS Covid pass. I do think that this is sensible - as when I am fully vaccinated I will still be able to transmit the virus so I’ll happily test.
But still nothing to say that partially or unvaccinated staff can do appointments with negative LFTs.

Cynically, it is probably a commercially motivated decision. They are keen to keep staff sickness absence as low as possible and be able to say to clients that the public facing workforce are fully vaccinated. It would not surprise me if client requests were driving this. I had to organize an outdoor public event for work. The COVID risk was well managed but still some members of the public complained that the entire team should have been vaccinated.

Maybe try to speak to a union, but if it is part of their company risk assessment for everyone who can to be fully vaccinated and if this policy can be justified on health and safety grounds, perhaps there’s not a lot you can do. Not an expert on employment law, sorry.

@TreborBore - I think you're right regarding client requests driving this. It amazes and saddens me how incredibly short-sighted people are being. In their rush to feel safe (even though it's arguable how much safer they will actually be by banning the unvaccinated) they are happy to stomp all over the rights of employees to keep their medical history confidential. These laws were brought in to protect all of us & there could well come a time when they need them too.

@VioletUltraViolet

So - this morning I have received another group email from head office saying that they are changing the rules, and that negative lfts will be required 3 times a week alongside an NHS Covid pass. I do think that this is sensible - as when I am fully vaccinated I will still be able to transmit the virus so I’ll happily test. But still nothing to say that partially or unvaccinated staff can do appointments with negative LFTs.

There will be staff within the company as a whole who have been there for over 2 years and so who would have a good case against the employer.

So I expect you will see them backing down fully soon.

@MynahBird

My company brought in a company-wide vaccine mandate, but gave enough notice so that unvaccinated staff members would have time to complete both jabs. I think it's the timescale which is unfair for you, not the requirement.

I think it is unfair for existing staff. By all means bring it in for new staff, as they have a choice whether to change jobs or not.

@JuergenSchwarzwald- I think many companies are heading in that direction all over Europe now. So there is no point in changing jobs. It has gone further than being about just health now, people are being judged for being the type of person who doesn’t want a vaccine and labelled a social pariah. Many companies do not want to hire people who don’t want a vaccine just as they check their social media profiles.

It is going to character now, whatever people’s reasons. I personally don’t agree with it but that is what is happening. You don’t want the vaccine = you aren’t a team player. However, there might be some niche companies run by people who also don’t want a vaccine so maybe that is where you need to apply if you are a person who doesn’t want the vaccine out of principle.

I'm a big supporter of vaccines - volunteered at vaccine centres - but still believe this is morally and legally dubious.

Surely a COVID pass would be fine i.e. you test daily with LFT tests and report the result? To be honest, even being triple jabbed myself I could still pass on the virus. The vaccine is there to reduce significantly the risk of serious hospitalisation and death.

Gwenhwyfar

"I know vaxed people who were very ill with covid and unvaxxed people who were very ill with covid and vaxed who had it mild and unvaxxed who had it mild

It seems to be very random illness"

It doesn't matter who YOU know personally. We know that vaccines cut the risk of serious illness and death. Your personal experience is not relevant.

Says you
It’s very relevant to me as it shows just how random it is where real people are concerned and not just numbers on a graph

It’s very relevant to me as it shows just how random it is where real people are concerned and not just numbers on a graph

What an odd perspective on the use of data collection. Those numbers are real people and represent an accurate picture that’s simply not possible to replicate through personal anecdote.

All this rejection of basic information, maths and science in favour of opinion with very shaky foundations is appalling. I’m almost at the point of thinking this society gets what it deserves.