"Pubs and restaurants could close in January under harsh new curbs"

[Maddymorphosis]

Daily mail source but when things are leaked like this they're usually correct..
Why is this happening again... I fear it'll be another full lockdown, my partner works at a pub too, can't take anymore

@theelephantinthegroup

I can't help thinking that these sort of leaks are done intentionally to make us more amenable to new restrictions instead (eg. more use of Covid passes, restrictions on household mixing etc). What we really need is a bit of honesty and proper leadership

Somehow I feel like ‘we’ve decided to put all our eggs into the vaccination only basket again. With a doubling time of 2-3 days, this is a big ask even if we could get everyone vaccinated by the end of the month and not just promised them one. January looks like it might be catastrophic but we’re saving Christmas, hooray’ might not work as a message.

I’m not sure the Uk public could cope with brutal honesty.

But Boris is doing his best.

Apparently...

@HannibalHayeski

But Boris is doing his best.

Apparently...

He probably is, that's the sad part. Not remotely up to the job.

@DynamiteFilledRadish

and yet Sky News are reporting positive news in that 2 doses of Pfizer offers 70% protection against hospitalisation and Chair of the South African Medical Association Angelique Coetzee has said the country is still on the same level of restrictions amid the surge of Omicron.

"She called for people to be "responsible" by getting a vaccination, saying they still protect against the virus"

"The cases are predominately mild... we don't see a need for stricter restrictions,"

That 70% isn’t the good news you think it is. It’s better than not being vaccinated at all, but it is considerably worse than delta. I’d imagine it’s even worse than that for AZ and we jabbed a lot of people with AZ in the U.K.

It’s even more likely to be an issue in the U.K. where we decided not to have a peak but a high plateau in the number of cases, which lead to us having quite a lot of people already in hospital with delta. (Yes I know it’s lower than the peak in January). More transmissible + vaccine escape + less protection from severe disease is not going to be a good combination when your starting point is the peak in a bad winter.

Coetzee should be taken with a pinch of salt at this point. It really is too early to tell. And there are reasons why this might at first look mild even if it isn’t. As far as I’m aware, she’s not an epidemiologist and is largely only quoted in certain sections of the U.K. media who have an agenda to push.

It's still too early to know.

It'll only be done if the situation is really concerning (key indicator being hospital admissions, but also if the numbers of workers anywhere/everywhere off sick is causing other problems and flattening/spreading the curve becomes the only possible amelioration)

But trying to stay 'glass half full' trailing it like this means that it's not being considered for before January and by then we'll have much better information on the disease pattern of this variant.

Also, January is the time when retail and hospitality are at their quietist (following the Christmas binge) so even if it all goes horribly wrong, there's an argument that it's the least worst time for it to happen

Even when the government gave grants to smaller businesses it wasn’t enough to counteract the losses of the past 20 months for most. Now VAT has risen from 5% to 12.5 %, and will rise again in April to 20% which squeezes hospitality even more.
I am worried if my DP ( more like when at the moment it’s hanging by a thread) loses his job in hospitality and the UC , if we are entitled to it, takes weeks to come though. He’s never done an office job and all the big supermarkets are inundated by people wanting work.
I have health problems, developed in the past 6 months, and get 28 days a year sick pay, which sounds a lot but not if you have a chronic problem. As it is I can’t support us all on 1 wage.
COVID has fucked us completely. I can no longer get income protection insurance I can afford, redundancy insurance no longer exists, we will never buy a house as the government decided to inflate house prices massively and we can’t risk using our deposit anyway in case DP ends up unemployed and I end up on £96 quid a week statutory sick pay.
Basically everything we were working towards and we’re planning for is fucked. COVID frankly seems like an irrelevance to me at the moment ( we have all had it).
I don’t know what the answer is or was but surely screwing over hard working ordinary people like they have was more avoidable than this??

Jeez. Hospitality has suffered so much. I will be praying this is not true.

@Changemusthappen

I think the government know that they can't lockdown again even if they wanted to.

If lots of children start getting really sick, if lots of young people start getting really sick then a lockdown could be justified. We need to move to a situation where anyone who is considered vulnerable - the elderly, people with health conditions, the unvaccinated etc isolate themselves to protect themselves as best they can.

We need to start seeing more detail in the daily stats - numbers by age group, underlying health conditions and unvaccinated because if the majority of the population are not really affected by this then life needs to go on.

But the vulnerable can't isolate unless they can WFH as there's no furlough... if you're a teacher or paramedic or doctor then you're screwed

Whatever is chosen, the press will stir

They’re egging him on to cancel Xmas so they can start wailing that Xmas is cancelled.

I bet there are loads of “either or” headlines

“Boris will kill thousands in January because he was too spineless to cancel Christmas”
Or
“Boris has cancelled Xmas because he was scared”

how will people survive without furlough they cant possibly do that

What I find ironic is Labour voting for Covid Passports which will impact some more than others

• Elderley with no or limit access to technology, so no church for you
• Immigrants who are 'not on the system' with no abilty to register their passport without flagging up on the systems
• Asian communities that are statistically less likely to be vaccinated
• Vulnerable people with less abilty to access software, and or have the abilty to update their personal records to show their vaccinated status

I am vaccinated, and I think it is the right thing to do, however, the passport will create an even bigger wedge in society, with the fear of exculison being even further widened.

Boris and Starmer should hang their heads in shame.

@NMC2022

But the vulnerable can't isolate unless they can WFH as there's no furlough... if you're a teacher or paramedic or doctor then you're screwed

The vulnerable are now triple jabbed, and with the exception of a relatively small number who are extremely vulnerable and don't mount much of an antibody response (who would be at high risk even without Covid) we're in a comply different place to where we were last year. We need to recognise that as we move forward, and most of the vulnerable are far less vulnerable than they were.

@fromdownwest

What I find ironic is Labour voting for Covid Passports which will impact some more than others

• Elderley with no or limit access to technology, so no church for you
• Immigrants who are 'not on the system' with no abilty to register their passport without flagging up on the systems
• Asian communities that are statistically less likely to be vaccinated
• Vulnerable people with less abilty to access software, and or have the abilty to update their personal records to show their vaccinated status

I am vaccinated, and I think it is the right thing to do, however, the passport will create an even bigger wedge in society, with the fear of exculison being even further widened.

Boris and Starmer should hang their heads in shame.

I obviously can't say what could be done in the UK but here

1. Your card you got when vaccinated is taken as proof 2)see point 1
2. If it's a choice then that's up to the individual
3. point 1

It's not just the app that's taken as proof but it is the easiest way.

Your card you got when vaccinated is taken as proof

So, absolutely zero proof at all then, the sort of proof we all used to get in to pubs 30 years ago when no-one really cared about under age drinking?

@RuggerHug - Here in Wales the App does not work.
So one needs to register with NHS online, which involves the need for a smart phone or tablet, as it takes a video of you to validate the application.

Once registered the only acceptable documents are a screen shot of your bar code, or a printed copy of your passport.

Your vaccination cards are not accepted as proof of vaccine.

@sirfredfredgeorge

Your card you got when vaccinated is taken as proof

So, absolutely zero proof at all then, the sort of proof we all used to get in to pubs 30 years ago when no-one really cared about under age drinking?

This is incorrect.

'Access to an NHS Covid pass requires an NHS login to ensure secure access through the NHS website. Once registered and logged in, a user can view their vaccination status and print the pass as a PDF document.

The Covid passport will also include a 2D barcode with an expiry date for security purposes. The barcode will be automatically updated when the expiry date is reached, the expiry does not relate to the Covid passport.'

@sirfredfredgeorge

Your card you got when vaccinated is taken as proof

So, absolutely zero proof at all then, the sort of proof we all used to get in to pubs 30 years ago when no-one really cared about under age drinking?

With your ID the HSE cards are taken yes. I don't know what health proof you used for the pub? I'm 90% with that you leave contact details aswell but I haven't used it myself so I can't say for sure.

[quote fromdownwest]@RuggerHug - Here in Wales the App does not work.
So one needs to register with NHS online, which involves the need for a smart phone or tablet, as it takes a video of you to validate the application.

Once registered the only acceptable documents are a screen shot of your bar code, or a printed copy of your passport.

Your vaccination cards are not accepted as proof of vaccine.[/quote]
Oh that's a different system then! Sorry about that, thought the app system would be similar to what we have and works well.

@RuggerHug - Welcome to Devolved NHS Wales!

@VikingVolva

It's still too early to know.

It'll only be done if the situation is really concerning (key indicator being hospital admissions, but also if the numbers of workers anywhere/everywhere off sick is causing other problems and flattening/spreading the curve becomes the only possible amelioration)

But trying to stay 'glass half full' trailing it like this means that it's not being considered for before January and by then we'll have much better information on the disease pattern of this variant.

Also, January is the time when retail and hospitality are at their quietist (following the Christmas binge) so even if it all goes horribly wrong, there's an argument that it's the least worst time for it to happen

It is definitely not too early to know that we are a bit fucked.

The cheery thing I read today is that if you say today 'that is it we have too many hopsital admissions' - in three weeks you will have 100x as many and there is nothing you can do to change that.

You have to stop three weeks BEFORE you get to the point where there are too many.

@boogiewithasuitcase

If there is another lockdown, business closures should be funded like last time. The Government have got money and they need to spend it on supporting small businesses who would otherwise go under.

Not all businesses were "funded" last time. There were over 3 million self employed who were excluded from the support schemes.

@Changemusthappen

I think the government know that they can't lockdown again even if they wanted to.

If lots of children start getting really sick, if lots of young people start getting really sick then a lockdown could be justified. We need to move to a situation where anyone who is considered vulnerable - the elderly, people with health conditions, the unvaccinated etc isolate themselves to protect themselves as best they can.

We need to start seeing more detail in the daily stats - numbers by age group, underlying health conditions and unvaccinated because if the majority of the population are not really affected by this then life needs to go on.

Who is going to do their jobs/work whilst they're isolating themselves? What about vulnerable teachers, doctors, nurses, shop workers, care workers, etc? Who will teach the kids and treat patients? Who will serve you in shops, who will care for those in care homes?

You've fallen into the trap of thinking "the vulnerable" aren't active members of society, relied upon by others.

@Siameasy

Whatever is chosen, the press will stir

They’re egging him on to cancel Xmas so they can start wailing that Xmas is cancelled.

I bet there are loads of “either or” headlines

“Boris will kill thousands in January because he was too spineless to cancel Christmas”
Or
“Boris has cancelled Xmas because he was scared”

This.. absolutely

I think the man is an absolute banana at times but realistically he can't do right for doing wrong.
People thrive on doom and gloom even if they won't admit it.
The media are relentless

If lots of children start getting really sick, if lots of young people start getting really sick then a lockdown could be justified.

Only could be??? If lots of children get really sick then it 'could be' justified? Wow.

My 'Covid pass' letter from the NHS in England, just received, doesn't show my 3rd jab from October 2021.

Bit of a shambles, really.