Plan C any idea when this will happen?

[OriginalM]

The rumours of plan c must mean it's coming but any ideas when you think it will happen? This week or next?
Will Boris get someone else to announce it if he is off on paternity leave?

[quote shouldistop]@GingerAndTheBiscuits which basic mitigation's throughout do you think would have kept numbers low?
In Scotland we've been under some kind of restrictions since March 2020. [/quote]
But numbers aren’t low in Scotland are they, despite those measures?

I’m not anti-measures btw. But I think we need to be realistic about any expectation that furlough will make a comeback

@Gingerbreadhoose

"The government should have focused on keeping cases low throughout, and very basic mitigations throughout could have done that. People need to realise we are in this for the long haul, but they don't because the government were never upfront The government should have focused on keeping cases low throughout, and very basic mitigations throughout could have done that.*"

Totally agree - they should have kept masks and basic social distancing in public. Everyone had got used to wearing masks - and in the main would have carried on - but pulling it back to that now it is no longer a habit for most is going to be really difficult.

It seemed an easy thing to keep in public spaces - like most of EU - and they just squandered that public compliance. And now no-one wants to go back to it.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits apologies I meant to tag @Gingerbreadhoose

I was asking which basic mitigation's @Gingerbreadhoose thinks would have kept numbers low given we've had restrictions in Scotland since the start and our numbers aren't low.

@CorsicaDreaming masks have never gone away in Scotland, even on secondary school pupils all day, primary school children still in bubbles. Doesn't seem to be helping up here.

@shouldistop realised after I posted!

[quote shouldistop]**@GingerAndTheBiscuits* apologies I meant to tag @Gingerbreadhoose*

I was asking which basic mitigation's @Gingerbreadhoose thinks would have kept numbers low given we've had restrictions in Scotland since the start and our numbers aren't low. [/quote]
Mask wearing and basic social distancing measures should never have been dropped...

@CorsicaDreaming but they weren't dropped in Scotland and our numbers aren't low . So how have they helped?

Seriously the pubs and clubs are packed and heaving, people are having parties up and down the country, and yet people STILL think 'a bit' of mask wearing and social distancing should fix the problem!!

For gods sake it makes no bloody difference, when you look at all the other factors in the wider picture of how it is actually spreading.

You shuffling around in a muzzle standing away from Betty in the grocers is going to make fuck all difference if your teen has been partying and snogging all night and brings covid home or your primary school kid is one of many in their class as it rips through the school. Or your work Christmas party is hot and sweaty in the social club and you are dancing the night away.

The UK will probably end up being the first large data source with high vaccination rates, high booster rates, against a much older and unhealthier population.

I don't necessarily think our population is much unhealthily, albeit different health issues relating to age.

I think it more likely that the government will let the virus carry on. If illness and infection is so great, then they don't have to make decisions, certainly about furlough.
A massively ill population, means less businesses, schools etc will be open simply because the working population is ill and therefore absent.
Normal absence policies will cover illness.
An ill population will mean we are not at school, shopping or socialising either so less need. If the new strain is less serious, there won't be the hospitalisations.
We will have to manage the rest of the fall out.

I think the government will try and let this run.

@Fairylights25

Seriously the pubs and clubs are packed and heaving, people are having parties up and down the country, and yet people STILL think 'a bit' of mask wearing and social distancing should fix the problem!!

For gods sake it makes no bloody difference, when you look at all the other factors in the wider picture of how it is actually spreading.

You shuffling around in a muzzle standing away from Betty in the grocers is going to make fuck all difference if your teen has been partying and snogging all night and brings covid home or your primary school kid is one of many in their class as it rips through the school. Or your work Christmas party is hot and sweaty in the social club and you are dancing the night away.

Yes well that won't be happening will it. I for one cannot wait for my Christmas party 🥳

[quote shouldistop]@CorsicaDreaming masks have never gone away in Scotland, even on secondary school pupils all day, primary school children still in bubbles. Doesn't seem to be helping up here.[/quote]
You don't know what the figures might be like without them. I don't think masks will make it go away, clearly, but it might be useful now we are back in situation of a new variant to have everyone in masks in England. Yet many still aren't.

I was at a Christmas fair (outdoors) yesterday and no one was really wearing masks and then one friend came up to me saying her husband was at home with Covid, but she was still there and not wearing a mask. (She'd had a PCR that was negative, but I guess that's only that moment in time. 24 hours later you could be positive and it takes a while to come back). I know it's within the law to do that, but it just feels like it is taking unnecessary risks of spreading it.

So now I am sitting waiting for three days wondering if I have caught it off her. We were about five minutes into conversation before she mentioned her husband had Covid.... then I scarpered! so I'm trying to think it's a v small risk...

“There is no sign whatsoever of hospitals being 'overwhelmed' none whatsoever.”

Have you been in a hospital recently? There is no slack in the system. There is a thread on here about a lady having a long wait for cancer surgery, there have been many threads about long A&E waits. If omicron rips through the unvaccinated (or even the partially vaccinated) the health service may quickly struggle.

[quote shouldistop]@CorsicaDreaming but they weren't dropped in Scotland and our numbers aren't low . So how have they helped? [/quote]
This question is asked a lot but never answered.

Wednesday. Is this a prize draw thread - what's the prize for guessing the right day?

Seriously though, no one can possibly know.

Have you been in a hospital recently? There is no slack in the system

Honestly wake up bunny there is never any slack in the system in the NHS in the winter! Never, thirty years ago it was exactly the same, and even worse some years. It is not because of covid!

corsica why would anyone with half a brain cell wear a mask outside?????

Those that want to live muzzled and terrified can batten down the hatches again and screech for lockdowns, whilst the rest of us will get on with running the country.

Autumn have a wonderful time at the party

You don't know what the figures might be like without them.

Why would they be any worse than England? We're less populated so numbers would likely be lower here anyway.

@Summersdreaming

Nice name 

Scientific evidence does seem to point to mask wearing working to reduce transmission quite significantly.

I agree with @Fairylights25 that if everyone is in clubs dancing about and breathing each other's air etc a bit of mask wearing by the few will make bugger all difference.

But the empirical evidence is fairly clear that mask wearing does make a difference to transmission rates.

@Fairylights25

Seriously the pubs and clubs are packed and heaving, people are having parties up and down the country, and yet people STILL think 'a bit' of mask wearing and social distancing should fix the problem!!

For gods sake it makes no bloody difference, when you look at all the other factors in the wider picture of how it is actually spreading.

You shuffling around in a muzzle standing away from Betty in the grocers is going to make fuck all difference if your teen has been partying and snogging all night and brings covid home or your primary school kid is one of many in their class as it rips through the school. Or your work Christmas party is hot and sweaty in the social club and you are dancing the night away.

I get your point. But surely that does help lower transmission risk slightly to Betty?

It makes no difference to Betty, none at all. If Betty is extremely vulnerable or very old she should be having shopping deliveries, taking walks outside and meeting up for outside coffees with friends and heaters.

Betty most likely has multiple exposures already.Her physio for her knee (that was at the office party the night before) her dentist (with primary age children) Her hip replacement in the local hospital and her incessant desire to continue shopping 'in person' on packed weekend days in overcrowded supermarkets when she doesn't need to.

Do people who want lockdown consider the impact on children’s mental health acceptable collateral damage? Around 100k more children were referred to child mental health services, about 90% up on 2019.

referrals are not the same as actually getting any help. The services are absolutely swamped, as you can see from the example in this report: an anorexic girl being tube fed at home for ten weeks due to no specialist beds available.

www.rcpsych.ac.uk/news-and-features/latest-news/detail/2021/09/23/record-number-of-children-and-young-people-referred-to-mental-health-services-as-pandemic-takes-its-toll

What about the horrific abuse cases we’ve been seeing in the news and up to 135k ‘ghost’ children who never went back to school in September? The kids now involved in county lines. That’s ok with you?

Its not just school closures, it’s not seeing friends, loved ones, it’s not going to activities, missing out on sport and being less active.

For many people the horrendous impacts of lockdowns at this point are just too high.

If you think all the above is acceptable then fine, that’s your opinion. But don’t pretend it’s not happening. Acknowledge the impact of what you’re calling for.

@timetimetickingonme

Do people who want lockdown consider the impact on children’s mental health acceptable collateral damage? Around 100k more children were referred to child mental health services, about 90% up on 2019.

referrals are not the same as actually getting any help. The services are absolutely swamped, as you can see from the example in this report: an anorexic girl being tube fed at home for ten weeks due to no specialist beds available.

www.rcpsych.ac.uk/news-and-features/latest-news/detail/2021/09/23/record-number-of-children-and-young-people-referred-to-mental-health-services-as-pandemic-takes-its-toll

What about the horrific abuse cases we’ve been seeing in the news and up to 135k ‘ghost’ children who never went back to school in September? The kids now involved in county lines. That’s ok with you?

Its not just school closures, it’s not seeing friends, loved ones, it’s not going to activities, missing out on sport and being less active.

For many people the horrendous impacts of lockdowns at this point are just too high.

If you think all the above is acceptable then fine, that’s your opinion. But don’t pretend it’s not happening. Acknowledge the impact of what you’re calling for.

Very well said

No basic mitigation’s would have kept cases low throughout. A few weeks ago posters kept saying oh look at France etc they have masks and their cases are really low. Well now they’re not.
I think ITU beds need to be ringfenced for non covid things.

Much of the issue with hospitals is not being able to safely discharge patients due to a lack of staff in social care. But the govt isn’t doing anything about that either.

@Fairylights25

corsica why would anyone with half a brain cell wear a mask outside?????

Because of the reason I set out in my post – that I have just spent time talking at very close proximity to a friend who subsequently told me her husband had tested positive for Covid, and it was quite probably Omnicom by the sound of it. So highly transmissible. I would just feel a lot safer if she and I had been wearing masks – although I agree generally I have not been wearing masks outdoors at all. I never have. But this was a very close proper chat with a friend face-to-face and then I find out they might well have Omicron! That's why...