Plan C any idea when this will happen?

[OriginalM]

The rumours of plan c must mean it's coming but any ideas when you think it will happen? This week or next?
Will Boris get someone else to announce it if he is off on paternity leave?

@Theunamedcat in your opinion, perhaps

It's a perfect storm and couldn't have come at a worse time.

Even if the variant is mild, transmissibility to millions of people means that it is likely that a small percentage will need hospital treatment, which will be a lot of people that the NHS might not be able to cope with.

Any tightening of restrictions in the next couple of weeks will be largely ignored and/or affect people's Christmas plans, which will be politically very unpopular. People won't stand for Christmas being 'cancelled' again.

So if necessary restrictions are delayed until after Christmas or even worse, the new year, it could all get even more out of control then.

Plus there's the economic impact on restaurants etc at their busiest time of year and more people being ill puts more pressure on an industry already suffering chronic staff shortages.

It makes zero financial sense we cannot afford as a country to do this

non compliance is at an all time high people are asked to wear masks and work from home where possible and many many people are out and about maskless and going to work

No-one wants to do this anymore

This may help answer the question...

MPs have to vote on Plan B first and some aren’t even keen on that

There is absolutely no way the govt will bring back furlough. So any further lockdown means financial ruin for many.

There is not a single case of hospitalisation of Omicron. Not one. So please tell me why on earth we would 'lock down' on the basis that this is nothing more than a common cold?

The data from South Africa isn't much use to us unfortunately, a far younger population, much lower vaccination rate, different health demographics, poor community data and reporting etc

This is only partially true. On global average yes their population is younger than the UK but it's not that young. And they have quite similar health demographics to us in terms of obesity and lifestyle related diseases. That's why they were hammered in terms of covid deaths in their first waves, unlike most of the rest of Africa.

It's true that they have a much lower vaccine uptake.

There are hospitalisation in South Africa

Hospitalisation lags cases by a few weeks usually

So next week will be first data points there in the uk

They usually lag by 3-10 days iirc.

border There are hospitalisations in SA because they are not vaccinated! There are ZERO hospital admissions here with the new variant. So until we can see the infections converting to serious illness and death, we should not even think about new restrictions or any kind of lockdown. It is way too soon to be making a call on this.

This feels to me like a total media frenzy whipped up for click bait.
Sky saying a million cases a day, until they were corrected.

A knee jerk reaction needs to be avoided. Lets wait for the data and see what happens with the admissions, and be comforted that it really does seem to be a mild disease. Even the hospitalisations in SA the majority did not even need oxygen - they were in hospital for other reasons according to news reports and caught Omicron whilst they were there.

“ A snapshot of 42 patients in the ward on 2 December 2021 reveals that 29 (70%) are not oxygen dependent. These patients are saturating well on room air and do not present with any respiratory symptoms. These are the patients that we would call ‘incidental COVID admissions’, having had another medical or surgical reason for admission. Thirteen (13) patients are dependent on supplemental oxygen of which nine (21%) have a diagnosis of COVID-19 pneumonia based on a combination of symptoms, clinical signs, CXR and inflammatory markers. All are being prescribed steroids as the mainstay of therapy. The remaining 4 patients are on oxygen for other medical reasons (2 previously on home oxygen, 1 in heart failure and 1 with a confirmed diagnosis of Pneumocystis Pneumonia).”

www.samrc.ac.za/news/tshwane-district-omicron-variant-patient-profile-early-features

Thank you Bumble, I was just looking for the link. These people were in hospital and ill in the first place with other medical issues, and omicron is a side issue in most if not all cases.

There were always people in hospital with pneumonia long before covid came along, in any event the vast majority have a very mild disease requiring steroids.

[quote Thewiseoneincognito]@Autumndays123 if this becomes a big problem fast then furlough will be back- otherwise the fall out will be immense.[/quote]
Clearly you did t read my message. Who will be implementing furlough? HMRC staff will mostly be on holiday for Christmas. So where are the thousands of staff needed to completely restart the system going to come from?

To those hysterical people calling for a lockdown, how do you see yourself spending the rest of your life? Honestly? Do we lockdown now, until when? Until everyone in the country is forced to get vaccinated? Nope because 2 vaccines aren't effective. So until everyone has had 3? Let's see, that'll take, what 6 months? So lockdown now until May, let people lose their houses, jobs, mental health. Let children be murdered by abusive parents because schools cannot keep check on them. Let businesses fold and the cancer diagnosis continue to be missed.

Then after the 6 months, we come out of lockdown, wait a month or two for a new variant and then repeat until the end of time?

Get realistic

It's really depressing how many people genuinely believe everything to do with covid now is just "media hype" and/or all a conspiracy to do with controlling us/a digital currency/fooling us all into vaccines etc.

The government had the wrong approach from the start through not ever explaining to the public what they were in for, and for how long.

Yes for most people it's not going to be dangerous. It really doesn't matter. If enough people get it, it's still going to cause widespread hospitalisation and death, particularly in the unvaccinated. So if just left to get on with it that means:

• an NHS unable to treat many other illnesses because ICU is overwhelmed with covid patients;
• a society and economy left unable to function because too many are ill. Basically without controlling the spread, everything (mental health, schooling, many businesses) are shot to shit anyway.

People don't realise that when they say "we need to learn to live with the virus", this is what they are advocating for.

The government should have focused on keeping cases low throughout, and very basic mitigations throughout could have done that. People need to realise we are in this for the long haul, but they don't because the government were never upfront about it (and of course they have now massively damaged public trust).

The government should have focused on keeping cases low throughout, and very basic mitigations throughout could have done that.

Which ones do you mean?

More than Germany who have more measures than us, what are you thinking in terms of what would work to keep cases low throughout

@GingerAndTheBiscuits which basic mitigation's throughout do you think would have kept numbers low?
In Scotland we've been under some kind of restrictions since March 2020.

The government should have focused on keeping cases low throughout, and very basic mitigations throughout could have done that

This is magical thinking, there were no “very basic mitigations” that would have kept cases low throughout.

@bordermidgebite

There are hospitalisation in South Africa

Hospitalisation lags cases by a few weeks usually

So next week will be first data points there in the uk

Is this right?

I think it’s quicker than that but you do have to consider the age group being affected, which may require a longer wait (ie to spread upwards)

What people don’t seem to get is that even if it is mild, something that is mega infectious will have people who are affected and likely hospitalised. A small percentage of a big number is still a lot of people. We’ve all got to hope that it does cause more mild disease because if it doesn’t, it’ll be too late to do anything but lockdown once it has ceded as so many people will be socialising.

I disagree fundamentally with this:

an NHS unable to treat many other illnesses because ICU is overwhelmed with covid patients

There is no sign whatsoever of hospitals being 'overwhelmed' none whatsoever. So the idea that they are is entirely incorrect.

The idea that people will tolerate endless 'mitigations' and 'restrictions' is also very wide of the mark, you seem to have no basic concept of just how sick and tired people are feeling already of the impact to their lives for a disease even you describe as not dangerous for most, why should they sacrifice endlessly for something that affects such a small percentage of society?

Your approach will not work, because covid is here to stay so unless it mutates into something truly horrendous then there will be no support for any further restrictions, it is becoming endemic here in the UK at least. We need to not panic and become hysterical gingerbread with knee jerk reactions helps nobody.

The only thing that has ever worked at getting infection rates down is full lockdowns. So unless you are going to do that, then small 'mitigations' simply will not work.

The daily Mail readers are going into orbit now , especially the anti vaxxers.
Any ' plans' won't work now. Too many conspiracy theories abound and people are wary of more and more jabs / boosters and do not trust the pharmaceutical companies.

I know I sound pathetic, but I think I will go off my rocker if I have to do another lockdown. The last one decimated my life.