More stringent measures next week?

[AchillesLastStand]

From the Guardian just now:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/10/stringent-uk-covid-measures-needed-within-a-week-leak-reveals

you get ran over while minding your own business, being careful @AndreaC67 ?

[quote Autumndays123]@freeBritnee sorry but protecting the vulnerable was the point of the lock nearly two years ago. We did that, we made sacrifices and I'm done doing that. Why are we destroying the lives of so many people to protect those, who as a PP said, will likely succumb to the next variant anyway?

Do people really think covid will just disappear? Or do they really think there will be a vaccine found that works against all variants? That is unfortunately not how vaccines work[/quote]
The problem is that CEV is a lot of people (including me)
Thy can't lockdown/shield without furlough/support and if they do, businesses will lose a lot of staff - you're talking NHS staff, ambulance service, police, supermarket workers, doctors.. all walks of life have CEV people
Plus CEV children with things like blood cancer
We also still have to go to hospital appointments etc

Why is it anyone elses problem if you can't lockdown yourself because of your job? Surely the alternative is everyone locks down and many, many people lose their job? Why is your job more important than theirs?

@Autumndays123 An NHS with capacity in line with Germanys health system, would be able to cope far better with large numbers of CV patients and still be able to deal with the more routine stuff.

We have chosen, over decades, not to have this, the NHS may have been cut in the last 11 years but it was also 2nd rate long before austerity.

@PassingByAndThoughtIdDropIn

The interaction with HIV is well-known - South African researchers have looked at this for some time and their working hypothesis is that omicron arose in an HIV positive person in Southern Africa with an impaired immune system who was infected with Covid for far longer than would be likely otherwise.

This is untrue. Scientists don't know where it came from and think it's been circulating in other countries before it was discovered by South Africa www.cnbc.com/2021/12/02/where-did-omicron-covid-variant-come-from-and-where-is-it-circulating.html

@MrsLargeEmbodied

you get ran over while minding your own business, being careful *@AndreaC67* ?

nope not according to some on here! its all someone else's fault and not their responsibility to help......

Sarcasm.

@IamGusFring

Yet no one has been hospitalised with it or have died yet ......

I hope it stays that way, of course, but hospitalisations and deaths generally come with a time lag.

@Autumndays123

Why is it anyone elses problem if you can't lockdown yourself because of your job? Surely the alternative is everyone locks down and many, many people lose their job? Why is your job more important than theirs?

Not my point I was making! Let's say every CEV person regardless of their job locks down More waiting times for ambulance, doctors, less police, less food delivery staff, less call centre workers.. so you would be affected by them locking down is the point So it's fine to say protect themselves but you have to appreciate the massive impact it will have if we all say "well actually fuck it, I'm shielding again regardless" Just from a 999 call centre I know, there are 7 CEV staff In my work out of 20, 4 of us are CEV and 1 is on the primary third vaccine list

@NMC2022 then those people will be replaced by others who want to work.

Like I said, instead of plunging the whole of the UK into lockdown again and again, those who want to lockdown should do so. If their employers don't like it then tough quite frankly, they can claim UC.

I mean we are just trying not to catch covid and die 🤷🏽‍♀️
Thankfully my employer also realises that which is why I WFH for the time being
Sometimes a little empathy doesn't go amiss given you could become CEV tomorrow and in that situation of trying to pay a mortgage/school fees/childcare on UC when you're not entitled to any DLA/PIP

And we want to work! I do FT 45hrs a week and have worked since I was 13 as I can't afford not to
You're basically saying if you have cancer and you're on chemo then you'll have to claim UC and just put up with it because you're likely to die anyway from covid, as long as you're alright

Worth bearing in mind, that the government will always use the experts that support and endorse their particular narrative. There are plenty of just as qualified and competent experts out there that believe lockdowns etc don’t work and do more harm than good. Not cranks or conspiracy theorists, they just have a differing view, but they are screamed down by group.

A case of my expert is better than your expert because s/he tells me what I want to hear.

@NMC2022

And we want to work! I do FT 45hrs a week and have worked since I was 13 as I can't afford not to You're basically saying if you have cancer and you're on chemo then you'll have to claim UC and just put up with it because you're likely to die anyway from covid, as long as you're alright

And you're basically saying that everyone should lockdown every time there is a new variant, ruining many, many lives instead? I for one could never be so selfish, cancer or not, to expect millions of people to suffer so I'm ok

@2389Champ

Worth bearing in mind, that the government will always use the experts that support and endorse their particular narrative. There are plenty of just as qualified and competent experts out there that believe lockdowns etc don’t work and do more harm than good. Not cranks or conspiracy theorists, they just have a differing view, but they are screamed down by group.

A case of my expert is better than your expert because s/he tells me what I want to hear.

There's an element of truth in people listening to the advice they want to hear, but in this particular case why the hell would this government want there to be lockdowns? They're inconvenient, expensive and at the moment open them up to dubious comparisons with their own behaviour.

@Autumndays123 no. I personally think we should have restrictions as needed that don't have as much effect so masks, and distancing, regular testing, support for CEV if they choose to use it and anything else that will work without a full lockdown
I would support a lockdown for CEV/vulnerable IF they are able to choose whether to or not and have full financial and employment support via furlough plus things like prescription and supermarket deliveries
I don't know what the answer is, I don't think there will be a lockdown as they would have to bring furlough back

And you're basically saying that everyone should lockdown every time there is a new variant, ruining many, many lives instead? I for one could never be so selfish, cancer or not, to expect millions of people to suffer so I'm ok

Absolutely this.

Pre covid, individuals having Chemo or on immuno suppressant therapies were advised/knew their risk of exposure to common infections or viruses. They didn’t expect the rest of the world to stop because of their specific issues. They made their choices and arranged their care and isolation knowing the potential dangers and how to avoid them.

Now, the rest of the healthy population has to be artificially contained because covid “trumps” everything which will ironically, lead to further undiagnosed cancers etc.

There's an element of truth in people listening to the advice they want to hear, but in this particular case why the hell would this government want there to be lockdowns? They're inconvenient, expensive and at the moment open them up to dubious comparisons with their own behaviour

Political expediency.

The only reason any government is desperate to protect the NHS is because they know for it to collapse on their watch would be political suicide. Any party that inadvertently killed the holy cow that is the NHS would forever be unelectable. Every party is always looking to the next election.

Had the government ploughed the money that has been spent on furlough, Nightingales, contracts, business support etc etc into sorting out the mess of the NHS - management and financial - we would not be still trying to save it.

@2389Champ

And you're basically saying that everyone should lockdown every time there is a new variant, ruining many, many lives instead? I for one could never be so selfish, cancer or not, to expect millions of people to suffer so I'm ok

Absolutely this.

Pre covid, individuals having Chemo or on immuno suppressant therapies were advised/knew their risk of exposure to common infections or viruses. They didn’t expect the rest of the world to stop because of their specific issues. They made their choices and arranged their care and isolation knowing the potential dangers and how to avoid them.

Now, the rest of the healthy population has to be artificially contained because covid “trumps” everything which will ironically, lead to further undiagnosed cancers etc.

When people get ill and require intensive care, they need that care now. Right now.

So what do you when those people outnumber the number of beds available? Literally what do you do?

That’s what this is about. Trying to reduce the numbers of people who need immediate care right now.

Had the government ploughed the money that has been spent on furlough, Nightingales, contracts, business support etc etc into sorting out the mess of the NHS - management and financial - we would not be still trying to save it

Naive statement - how do you train nurses and medical staff in that short period of time?

@Autumndays123

I agree with PP. Absolutely just let Omicron run its course. I've just said this on another thread, after Omicron there will be another variant, and then another and then another. Each new one appears to be more resistant to our vaccines, so we're going to be constantly chasing new vaccines and in a state of lockdown half the year, every year forever.

Not happening. We've done lockdowns for nearly two years. All the do is stop the inevitable at the expense of people lives, livelihoods, jobs, houses and mental health. Not to mention the impact on the kids constantly being taken out of school.

So yes, absolutely, nothing else has worked so we stick to soft measures, masks, handwashing, maybe some social distancing and we ride it out. That is 100% better than spending the rest of our lives in lockdown. Anyone who thinks differently can just not leave the house anymore of their own accord and not ruin the rest of the country's lives in the process

Absolutely agree 100%

I fucking hate lockdown but if this headline is true we can't lose 25-75,000 people

We just can't - is no one reading the threads about Mumsnetters partner who are 40's and nearly died? These are not only going to be people at the end of life anyway

These are people who could be in hospital for MONTHS preventing any other operations taking place - not to mention the strain on mental health on the staff

Estimates in the first lockdown say we SAVED 40,000 lives having it

@LaurieFairyCake

I fucking hate lockdown but if this headline is true we can't lose 25-75,000 people

We just can't - is no one reading the threads about Mumsnetters partner who are 40's and nearly died? These are not only going to be people at the end of life anyway

These are people who could be in hospital for MONTHS preventing any other operations taking place - not to mention the strain on mental health on the staff

Estimates in the first lockdown say we SAVED 40,000 lives having it

I know. I think people have disconnect from why we did this in the first place.

Most of us will be fine. Many of us will not be.
Some of us who think they’re going to be fine won’t be because they don’t know what vulnerabilities they’ve got.

Covid showed the worst of our society - huge rates of poverty, ingrained inequalities. Etc. and it continues to do so with this government’s actions and those who are refusing to follow the minimal restrictions in place.

Stop giving backhanders to your tory mates, also tax the rich and put that money into the NHS.
We don't want the NHS overwhelmed, so fund it instead of giving all your mates the money (bastard tories) I'm done with the public suffering and sacrifices when the government ignore the rules. Viruses mutate, deal with it, it's what your paid for.

@OnceuponaRainbow18

I think we should have online learning for jan giving time for everyone who wants a booster to have one.

Personally working in a secondary when I’ve read my 2 jabs only offer me between 0-45% against new variant is scary

Another school closure would destroy my daughter's mental health again, she's only just recovered from the last one. School needs to be face to face, children need the social side too.

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus

Well ideally they will prioritise school workers for boosters then