90% of ICU patients admitted with COVID haven't been vaccinated.

[Desithebulldog]

Been listening to the news and they've said that 90% of the patients admitted to ICU with COVID haven't been vaccinated. For each patient admitted they are denying 10 other patients who need surgery their ICU beds. So currently (I'm sure there are more) there are 1,000 patients holding up 10,000 operations. I find this absolutely gobsmacking. Why, why, why would people not get vaccinated to help the NHS? They are on their knees and need all the help they can get. I know it's a personal choice but why are all the non-believers making it so hard for others to get a much needed operation? I just don't get it.

Interested to know why on Earth my comment was deleted?!

@Bumbleymummy, I don't know whether you missed my question earlier, but do you think pregnant women should be encouraged to have the vaccine? They are one of the vulnerable groups at increased risk of complications.

There are lots of reasons why people have not been vaccinated, all valid to the individuals. Normally, people do not eat healthily or do not take enough exercise or do not take their meds like they should and end up in hospital. Are you hyper critical of them?
The NHS is free at point of deliver for everyone as it should be. We need to fight to keep that. And don't believe all the rumours... The NHS is people and there are as many skivers in the NHS as there are in any other employer... Job for life and all that. They cost their colleagues dear but it is taboo to say anything! If they were all at their work, more work could be done.

@bumbleymummy keep going! Whether people agree or disagree with your opinions does not make them any less valid than anyone else’s.

Presenting opinions or anecdotes as facts is of course misinformation, and should be dealt with appropriately, but it is a very slippery slope if we try to silence opinions we don’t agree with.

By the way, for anyone who still loves dictionary definitions, Merriam Webster has update their anti-vaxxer definition to include those who “oppose regulations mandating vaccinations”. For the first time, and somewhat unexpectedly, I’m now an anti-vaxxer!

@Grida

You don’t really have to take personal responsibility for your health in this country. I suppose tax on cigarettes and alcohol is a bit like paying a higher premium on your health insurance but that is about it. I guess that is why so many people love the nhs so much.

Unfortunately in my experience it is the silly people who smoke and drink to excess who DON’T appreciate how lucky we are to have the NHS and therefore don’t treat it like the precious gift it is.

[quote Reallybadidea]@Bumbleymummy, I don't know whether you missed my question earlier, but do you think pregnant women should be encouraged to have the vaccine? They are one of the vulnerable groups at increased risk of complications.[/quote]
Sorry, I did miss that! I think they are already being encouraged to have it @Reallybadidea. I don’t think we need to only encourage certain groups one at a time though - it’s just that the figures from the report I linked to earlier show such a disproportionate number of overweight/obese people in icu that it would make sense to address it directly. It could significantly bring down numbers in hospital if the uptake of the vaccine increased in that group.

Thanks @Awakened22. Yes, I actually did see that. I’m not sure it’s going to turn out to be a good thing to change the definition tbh. There are now lots more very credible ‘antivaxxers’ - medics, scientists etc who don’t agree with vaccine mandates and probably now outnumber genuine conspiracy theory believing anti-vaxxers!

Covid patients have a transmittable disease. This means they have to be treated in semi isolated conditions with no other patients without covid in the room. So of you have covid patients in your ITU, that's all you have in there. Same with wards. If you have isolated covid patients they can go in side rooms. If you run out of side rooms they go into wards and that ward becomes a covid ward. Also in ITU you have a greater amount of staff per patient due to how sick people are. If your wards are full of covid patients, where are the other normally sick people going to go? Where are you getting the extra staffing from? Make sens?

@bumbleymummy

Thanks *@Awakened22*. Yes, I actually did see that. I’m not sure it’s going to turn out to be a good thing to change the definition tbh. There are now lots more very credible ‘antivaxxers’ - medics, scientists etc who don’t agree with vaccine mandates and probably now outnumber genuine conspiracy theory believing anti-vaxxers!

I think it’s crazy to change the definition but then it probably highlights the mad world we now live in where you can now have a fully vaccinated anti-vaxxer

I will ask you then, what are your views on obese people overstretching the NHS? Are they a bigger issues or lesser issue than anti vaxxers and the same question applies to people taking drugs , copious amounts of alcohol, smoking etc.

I don't think it's a directly comparable issue, because the conditions in question are all radically different. However, there is consistency in certain underlying principles that I apply. For example, I have never been (and will never be) someone who thinks that unvaccinated people should be denied medical care. Even with the emotional difficulty I know that can give rise to, I don't think there should be any barrier to access to care. That's a principle of mine and no matter how much I disagree with elective avoidance of vaccination, I don't want to 'punish' people in such an awful way.

Obesity - multifactorial, complex. Food itself is essential, and individuals do not have culpability for the creation and marketing of hyper-palatables (with attendant dysregulation of appetite), nor for (e.g.) trauma, poverty. (Before you assume 'oh, so she's fat and making excuses... no, I'm a shakily recovered anorexic at a low-end healthy weight.)

Smoking - personally, I'd ban it. Good thing for smokers I'm not in charge.

@Kteeb1

Covid patients have a transmittable disease. This means they have to be treated in semi isolated conditions with no other patients without covid in the room. So of you have covid patients in your ITU, that's all you have in there. Same with wards. If you have isolated covid patients they can go in side rooms. If you run out of side rooms they go into wards and that ward becomes a covid ward. Also in ITU you have a greater amount of staff per patient due to how sick people are. If your wards are full of covid patients, where are the other normally sick people going to go? Where are you getting the extra staffing from? Make sens?

And, indeed, patients who would normally need side rooms can't have them.

I don’t think it’s on to dredge up information from other sites to use against a poster personally. Your argument stands or it doesn’t, there isn’t really any need to start mud-slinging.

Report to MNHQ if you think it’s relevant as part of a bigger picture.

to seem to be apoplectic with rage over

I am not apoplectic with rage. I am calmly typing in bed. You are the one who suggested I would benefit from an exorcist, a comment for which you have not apologised. @Rachel783

Hello all. NRTWT but the 90% figure us completely wrong and just more fear mongering propaganda. See below 😊

🚨🚨 @reallorraine - “That is a really a figure we really need to concentrate on, 90% of people in hospital have not been vaccinated”

➡️ A figure to focus on because its factually incorrect from @DrHilaryJones

◼️ 36% of Covid patients in hospital unvaccinated not 90% t.co/PBw1RVGM2E

Yay - keep going @Bumbleymummy - I think you are becoming legendary!!! 😎

Still patiently waiting for some specific examples of the 'evil misinformation' you've supposedly been wildly and wilfully spreading about...if these examples aren't shared soon then I'm afraid I will have to assume they were making it all up!

@nojudgementhere

Yay - keep going *@Bumbleymummy* - I think you are becoming legendary!!! 😎

Still patiently waiting for some specific examples of the 'evil misinformation' you've supposedly been wildly and wilfully spreading about...if these examples aren't shared soon then I'm afraid I will have to assume they were making it all up!

Misleading people about vaccine efficacy and safety leads to avoidable deaths.

Not COVID related as such but explains why our NHS is only going to get worse if The Health & Care Bill is approved. I heard about this via The Guilty Feminist podcast...

www.yournhsneedsyou.com/the-health-and-care-bill/

@Innocenta

The thing that concerns me is the ONLY political party in the UK that would support some of the views on here are reformUK and the far right.

It’s not a left wing view, it’s not our right wing governments view (although they are more leaning towards it) - it is the view of reformUK.

Read their manifesto in Covid and it’s - word for word - the same pro freedom bullshit that posters are staying here.

We’ve really sunk that low. Sod the vulnerable, it’s survival of the fittest.

@pianolessons1 I'm CEV and unvaccinated and have been advised not to have the vaccine as it poses a greater risk to me due to my allergies than the chance I will get covid, especially since I'm still being cautious whilst getting on with my life. I wouldn't be surprised to find out a lot more can't have it. I personally know a few that also have been told not to have it. To be honest the media want to sell papers so I doubt they would even consider checking things like how many couldn't get due to health reasons. But this is one fact I really like to know myself.

Misleading people about vaccine efficacy and safety leads to avoidable deaths

I haven’t done this so I’m not sure why you’re targeting me. Why would I suggest prioritising boosters/vaccinating vulnerable groups here and in other countries if I didn’t think that the vaccine worked and could significantly reduce hospitalisations/deaths?

@bumbleymummy - I’ve seen you do that too, so don’t be disingenuous.