What does everyone think about the banning of the unvaxxed in Germany?

[Katieandthekids]

I'm just interested in opinions. I personally believe that no one should ever force anyone to put something in their body.

Just as a side: I had both vaccines during my pregnancy and still not 100% sure I've done the right thing but in balance and after lots of my research believe 99% that it is fine. Totally respect the reasons people are nervous about it though.

@nojudgementhere

I’m glad someone agrees! It feels lonelier and lonelier out here on my limb 😂

@Sassenach85 - Yeah, I know how you feel! At least there's two of us out on that limb now!

Delta was not prevalent in mainland Europe this time last year. Deaths are still lower, but new infections and numbers needing hospital treatment are very high at the moment. In Belgium schools will shut a week early for Xmas and over 6s will now need to wear masks. Vaccination levels in Belgium are one of the highest and strangely the cases are highest in the areas where vaccination is also high. And that dropped the mask mandate several months back.

It’s horrifying-no one should be penalised for refusing a medical procedure. No group should be ostracised from society and treated as scape goats, you would think Germany would have more sense.

@Sassenach85 I feel like I’m going mad. I’m not in the conspiracy theory camp but so much that is happening makes no sense to me and I don’t understand why others aren’t questioning things too.
My views don’t fit nicely in any box. I need a ‘middle ground’ club or something.

@Mistyplanet

I find it horrifying and unbelievable any country is doing this.

I agree. Scary stuff

@Bwix

I think it’s reasonable. We don’t simply have rights: we also have responsibilities. It’s tragic that people are dying of preventable illnesses as hospitals are full of unvaccinated patients who would likely not have needed treatment if they had taken the vaccine.

This simply isn't true

Can I join the middle ground club? I’m double vaccinated, became really ill after 2nd vaccine (still undergoing tests 6 months later). Booked in for booster because if societal pressure -not sure if I’ll take it as unsure of reasons for illness, the most the medical profession will say is there is a temperol proximity” between jab and illness

But I’m genuinely frightened by peoples lack of critical thinking and willingness to blame other groups, and most of all not to learn from history where you exclude certain groups from society for their heresy (ie not thinking the same as you). What else will be deemed worthy of excluding people from being able to participate fully in society, what other alternative views will be deemed heretical and lead to a sentencing of “virtual” death.

Presumably people are also ok with cutting people out of society for religious views etc

@October2020

Oh for goodness sake. They're not being forced. If you don't want a vaccine, fine. But there are societal consequences for making choices about what you want/don't want to do and people have to accept that!

We don't go around saying 'I can't believe I'm being forced not to murder people or otherwise they'll put me in prison', do we?

That's just stupid

Not having a vaccine hardly equates to murder.

@BlueskiesAbove

WHilst we are on the subject of stats, there are several hundred sleep related deaths on UK roads each year which is greater than the number of children who have died with covid. Maybe given your username *@sleepwouldbenice* you should stop trying to bully people with your vaccine obsession for all ages and go to bed to "protect the NHS" as people like you pose a far greater risk than covid does for under 18s with your sanctimonious rants.

Really? That's the best you can do. Yep real bullying going on here

Again. Maybe think about the fact that I actually have said that I agree with you that vaccines should not be compulsory. So no bullying at all. I also can see the argument re children. Check my posts if you don't believe me

But the rhetoric and misinformation from posters like yourself? That really does make me not that bothered if restrictions go ahead.

@JohnDee007
I’d like to join the middle ground group too!

I think questioning things is essential. Firstly because the vaccine manufacturers aren’t getting the vaccine out to poorer countries. They’re prolonging the nightmare!

Also because said manufacturers have a shoddy record on consumer health, safety and accountability eg) lying about the children with narcolepsy, killing children in Nigeria when testing drugs, the refusal to admit that myocarditis was anything to do with the COVID vaccines etc etc.

Double vaxxed, but not relishing the thought of the booster to make me feel crap again. And having to keep doing it over and over again until someone works out that the whole world works needs vaccinating! Not just us richer countries…

Yes! Middle ground group. To save our sanity! I’m up for that.

@JohnDee007

Can I join the middle ground club? I’m double vaccinated, became really ill after 2nd vaccine (still undergoing tests 6 months later). Booked in for booster because if societal pressure -not sure if I’ll take it as unsure of reasons for illness, the most the medical profession will say is there is a temperol proximity” between jab and illness

But I’m genuinely frightened by peoples lack of critical thinking and willingness to blame other groups, and most of all not to learn from history where you exclude certain groups from society for their heresy (ie not thinking the same as you). What else will be deemed worthy of excluding people from being able to participate fully in society, what other alternative views will be deemed heretical and lead to a sentencing of “virtual” death.

Presumably people are also ok with cutting people out of society for religious views etc

I absolutely agree with you. There are no “sides” in this and the way that some people are blindly following eachother and resorting to essentially segregating a part of the population is absurd.

I am also fully vaccinated but I wouldn’t resort to calling people “stupid” for making a choice. Most people I think are middle ground and have critical thinking skills and make a decision based on what they’re comfortable with.

It’s frightening that it already seems to be an “us vs them” mentality.

Presumably people are also ok with cutting people out of society for religious views etc

Some people will have refused the vaccine due to their religious or philosophical beliefs and will already be finding their place in society is being restricted in some countries. It's very clear that many people will be absolutely ok with that.

In any case - they are not mandating vaccines in Germany, currently. Angela Merkel has strongly advised they consider it, and they are voting on the mandate by next February 2022.

@BamboozledandBefuddled

Presumably people are also ok with cutting people out of society for religious views etc

Some people will have refused the vaccine due to their religious or philosophical beliefs and will already be finding their place in society is being restricted in some countries. It's very clear that many people will be absolutely ok with that.

Yes. This, a million times over.

In any case - they are not mandating vaccines in Germany, currently. Angela Merkel has strongly advised they consider it, and they are voting on the mandate by next February 2022.

Oh please, don't let the truth get in the way of a good MN frothing session

I live in Brussels and the areas with lowest vaccine take up are (generally speaking) the areas with the largest Muslim populations. So I can appreciate the religious aspect with not wanting it. But they are also the areas with the lowest number of reported new infections. I am not sure what take from this. Whilst cases and vaccinations are reported at that level of detail, the hospitalisations and deaths are not. So in these areas are they not testing there at the same level? Is there a big difference in socialization? Are they the ones in hospital? Like the UK, the biggest spreader is schools so everything should be equal there. Flanders has nearly 90% of adults vaccinated yet their new case rate is 4 x the rate of Brussels where it is about 60%.

I'm double vaxxed but I have to admit this is making me uncomfortable. But not as uncomfortable as Greece, which are actually fining people for not getting the vaccination.

@EileenGC

Why are things worse than ever now with over 60 per cent vaccinated in Germany? Worse than they were with 0 per cent vaccinated? Why are infections so high when we keep being told being vaccinated reduced the chance of catching this or passing it on?

Because the country isn't in a lockdown anymore. Because people are socialising and living normal lives instead of staying at home, working from home, eating at home and seeing people over zoom.

If it weren't for vaccines the numbers would be much higher. In Germany, the UK and everywhere else.

Like @WeDidntMeanToGoToSea said, the German public would never put up with the UK's current acceptance level to this virus, and the cases and deaths it has caused. It would be unacceptable for the government NOT to take action, NOT to try and mitigate this thing as much as they can. I can't even imagine the outrage that would happen if the prime minister had organised Christmas parties during lockdown, driven to Scotland for an eye test, or if a private testing company for Day 2 tests was set up by minister's mates and their wives. They would be out before the end of the day, instead of a few mocking threads on Mumsnet about it, and little else.

Germany's overall cases are still lower than the UK's, deaths are lower, disruptions to children's education last winter was shorter, people were never banned from seeing family or relatives by law, unlike in the UK. We lived a much more 'normal' life ever since the pandemic started. I was travelling abroad for Christmas last year whilst my best friend in England couldn't meet up with her dad who was dying of cancer FFS.

The few posters who have taken it upon themselves to explain to everybody why these measures are draconian, when they don't live here or understand this country's needs and customs are over the top. Simply because they don't know what they're talking about.

People ought to stop writing about countries they don't know anything about, like they're experts. I'm not an expert on Greece or Lithuania's current Covid situation, so I don't pretend I know what I'm talking about.

Well said. They are doing this for Australia, too, and depicting it as some kind of totalitarian hellhole when the truth is very different. Posters don't know anything about the complexities of our population and how different states need to deal with Covid carefullly, yet they invoke all the insults. It's mind-numbing.

People happy to dance to the tune how how many vaccines the government has bought for them and apparently unconcerned that we no longer have any sort of health system lmao. So over this population.

And for the record I'm vaccinated. Pointlessly, because I had covid before the vaccines were available and still caught a strain recently.

Australia is interesting as it does look like some kind of hell hole with mandates for many workers, quarantine camps, angry dictating politicians and protests.
Obviously, it affects those who don’t want to comply more.

Australia is interesting as it does look like some kind of hell hole with mandates for many workers, quarantine camps, angry dictating politicians and protests.

Only if you get all your 'news' from UnHerd.

“Only if you get all your 'news' from UnHerd.”

What are you trying to imply with that comment? I’ve not heard of Unherd. I’ve seen articles on the BBC and other media about quarantine camps and people escaping plus all the news about the protests and those who don’t want the vaccine.