What does everyone think about the banning of the unvaxxed in Germany?

[Katieandthekids]

I'm just interested in opinions. I personally believe that no one should ever force anyone to put something in their body.

Just as a side: I had both vaccines during my pregnancy and still not 100% sure I've done the right thing but in balance and after lots of my research believe 99% that it is fine. Totally respect the reasons people are nervous about it though.

it’s not a problem for you today to wave your paper or phone at someone to enter a restaurant because you’re vaccinated. But what about when you have to get your 5th booster after the 4th one made you very ill and suddenly it’s not as easy to just get vaccinated so you can go inside a restaurant.

I've just had my booster, with not one ill effect (the same for my two initial shots) but we only need to have the first two vaccinations to get the covid pass, the booster isn't necessary. Maybe do a bit of research first?

And you say that the NZ government isn’t trying to take away your civil rights, in my opinion they already have! You are now in a contract to keep up with vaccinations for as long as they want you to have them no matter how you might react to them in the future, otherwise it will be you who can’t go out for a meal.

See my previous response! You are spouting a lot of nonsense, about something you know nothing about.

It's the same with Covid patients. Given the amount of people that have been vaccinated, of those present in a Covid ward at any Covid time the majority will generally be vaccinated.

Oh I thought the vaccine was meant to prevent the need for hospital treatment? Let me guess '"not 100% effective', yeah I'm aware, nowhere near 100% effective.

@BlueskiesAbove

Imagine anyone drawing conclusions from a surgeons brother treating 13 patients- this is the type of madness rife in society where people can't interpret data.

Can't interpret data?! Yet more marvellous unconscious projection!

I really applaud the people who have been vaccinated and still speak up for our human rights and choice. It’s a valid perspective that the Covid cult want to over look. If anyone dares to question the intentions or efficacy or need etc etc it is easy to label them stupid or nuts.

It fills me with some hope that there are still people who can see what is wrong with mandating a vaccine throughout the globe.

It has been a long time since we as a collective have had to really fight for, protect and defend basic human rights. This is plain to see. Humans can be so simplistic in their outlook. Frighteningly so.

“I’ve had my vaccine/10th booster and I trust the Govt to look after my democratic rights for me….”

Ok then 🤷‍♀️

mandatory vaccination? Terrifying. What will be next?

People forget Europe didn’t see a surge in cases during summer like the UK did. Cases were extremely low here for months, incidences in the single or double digits for weeks on end.

The fact that the UK has accepted a stable incidence of 400+ for months at a time, doesn’t exclude other countries from seeing spikes and waves this winter. Spikes and waves that are, in the majority of cases, smaller than the UK’s cases in September.

I find these graphs interesting:
Total/cumulative vaccinated per million inhabitants
Cumulative infections per M
Newly registered infections per M

And deaths per M inhabitants

@Sassenach85 - I agree! I've just reading through the comments and it's lovely to see so many people, unvaccinated and vaccinated, joining together in condemning what's going on. It seems there's lots of people out there who are refusing to lose their principles regardless of the propoganda and constant fear that the media are pumping out. I made the mistake of reading a Guardian newspaper comments section yesterday & the constant blatant hatred & fear of anyone who wouldn't take the vaccine really shocked me and made me very sad.

@EileenGC

I’m in Germany. I’m all for body autonomy but this measure is actually needed now. The sheer amount of people who simply refuse to be vaccinated, or claim their magical natural remedies will make them indestructible and unable to pass the virus on.

Genuinely exempt people, who can’t get vaccinated for health reasons, a history of reactions etc, have always had access to a certificate that says so. When free community testing were stopped, they still had access to the free tests, so they could go to a restaurant or museum.

This is not about those who can’t take the vaccine. It’s about those who simply don’t want to. People who are still going to football matches and pubs and concerts and are putting those around them at risk.

There is no central system for checking negative test results are genuine. To set one up would require a complete overhaul of the healthcare system. There are hundreds of healthcare providers in this country, it would take decades to centralise it all. The aforementioned anti-vaxxers are also quite good at forging negative tests. Hence, the spread.

For contrast, there IS a single system that can check vaccination and recovery certificates are genuine. Which is what is being used now.

Carrying your paperwork when you leave your home is completely normal in many civilised countries and I don’t see people protesting about that. I’m Spanish and we always have to carry ID on us at home. By the time you’re 14, you must own an ID card, by law. It’s a simple card you keep in your bag and everybody does that, yet I don’t see people comparing Spain with Nazi Germany.

Some areas of Germany are at the brink of their hospitals collapsing. Especially in the east, people aren’t getting their vaccines. The ICUs are almost full. Yet unvaccinated people still want full access to public life.

I’m sorry but no - I haven’t done three lockdowns, months and months m of no income and everything we all went through last year, for my workplace and our local businesses to close yet again, because the infections are too high. Because our hospitals are getting overwhelmed. Because people aren’t vaccinated and with each variant, they are transmitting more and more viral load to their unvaccinated friends and relatives. And to vulnerable people who despite the vaccines, are still not fully protected.

They won’t be able to 100% enforce the compulsory vaccination. Many people will fall through the system undetected. But they are right in taking measures because we need to keep things open. And we can’t do it at the expense of yet more unnecessary deaths, so we need protective measures to stay open.

Thank you! Really interesting to read from someone actually there x

Also for you guys in the UK replying at 1am you need to go to bed earlier haha

Good luck with only your 2 vaccinations @gofg. That’s what everybody in the uk thought was necessary. Now we are all required to have a booster after 3 months of the last one and who knows how many more, the government have made orders for at least the next 2 years!

It's the constant need to repeated vaccinations that disturbs me too @Lostinacloud. Nobody really knows whether it will have an impact on people's immune systems in the future or the result of mixing and matching all the different types as there hasn't been any evidence on that yet as far as I can see. I would hate to feel I was on a treadmill of vaccines - having to have one every few months, regardlss of how many antibodies I might have, just to keep my 'good, compliant citizen' privileges.

People that haven't had vaccines will never catch up surely because they won't be able to have the boosters that will be needed for the passports for ages so will always be behind and locked out

I think it's fine. People have a choice whether to get vaccinated or not but if they choose not to that choice, like most things, has consequences and it is for the individual to decide which course they wish to take.

Not sure about it but deaths are high at over 400 so I suppose something needs to be brought in

Whoops, wrong thread

@catgirl1976 what about people who had a bad reaction to the first or second vaccine? GP’s have been told they aren’t allowed to exempt anybody from vaccination almost no matter what happened to them the first or second time. It’s insane that people are being asked to get vaccinated or lose rights of access no matter what their demographic risk in the first place, without asking people suffering side effects to continue being further vaccinated regardless.

User63896578
People that haven't had vaccines will never catch up surely because they won't be able to have the boosters that will be needed for the passports for ages so will always be behind and locked out

What are you talking about? You need to be fully vaccinated to get a covid pass i.e. two vaccinations. That then counts as fully vaccinated until your "time" runs out before you need a booster.
In some countries the pass is valid 9 months, in some a year, but I think in all countries the pass is valid for longer than the waiting time recommended for a booster.
Once you have a booster, you count as fully vaccinated again for your allotted time.

Your pass is dependent on when you had the vaccine, not when they first started giving vaccines out. Else by your logic e.g. a child who turns 12 next year would never be fully vaccinated which is clearly not the case.

I think it’s great. I can’t smoke in pubs or shops and that’s a way lower risk to anyone than Covid.

Antisocial behaviour has always been subject to rules.

In Saxony, only 58% of the population is double vaccinated, due to the high proportion of anti vaxxers, conspiracy theorists and alternative medicine believers.
The Germans are facing a potential meltdown in their hospitals and ICUs in the region, if they don't take drastic action to get vaccination numbers up.
Insisting that people must be vaccinated if they wish to socialise is simply a common sense public health measure, not some sinister Nazi plot. The more hysterical PPs here need to get a grip.

Don't care about the unvaccinated they get far to much airtime being a diminishing minority.

They can sit at home blaming Bill Gates for everything that is wrong with their lives if they want.

We shall be at the panto

Applauding EileenGC and Babdoc.

I live in Germany, as a naturalised German (dual nationality but frankly I haven't particularly identified with my British nationality over the last few years). Started reading this thread last night and was quite surprised it took until the second page for the Nazi comparisons to start.

(Apologies if I repeat anyone else with this) Vaccination rates are a bit better than they look here due to them generally being expressed as a percentage of the total population, but there is still a sizeable contingent of what you could loosely call ideologically non-vaccinated people that, fatally, tend to converge in particular areas of the country. For reasons I don't entirely understand, there has been a sudden and very steep surge in cases, especially in these areas, over the last 3 weeks. We started off from a much lower level than the UK. Cases constantly at UK levels I think wouldn't have been acceptable to either German politicians or the German public.

If you take the exclusive focus on vaccination out of the measures that have been put in place, all they are doing is ensuring particular, non-essential spheres of public life not be accessed by people with a higher risk than others of being infected/transmitting it to others. Your risk of doing so is lower if you are fully vaccinated or have had Covid within the last six months, so those people can access these spaces. Not being able to be vaccinated for documented medical reasons counts you as vaccinated.

if you choose to be unvaccinated, you can still do your food shopping, go to the doctor and the chemist, go for a walk, even meet your family - but then that gathering must have no more than two households total. A German newspaper gave an example which I thought was very interesting - if your immediate family (vaccinated) and your parents (vaccinated) are together and couple friends (unvaccinated) turned up, your parents would have to leave. Certainly in that hypothetical example it would be vaccinated people making room for unvaccinated people again.

I resent the insinuations of totalitarianism (and particularly the Nazi crap, of course). Germany has been publicly soul-searching for months about this, until very recently in the hope that it wouldn't come to it. The governments I have experienced in my 2 decades here have been very well aware of the weight of history and and incursions into individual freedoms are not taken lightly. But there is an increasing feeling that those exercising their choice to be unvaccinated (and, let's not forgot, often influencing others to do the same - don't you think that if totalitarianism was behind this, there would have been a crackdown on that?) are beginning to hold everyone else hostage. If y choice you make risks impacting on the wellbeing of others, then the consequence of that will be not stopping you from making the choice, but taking measures to ameliorate that risk to others' wellbeing you are posing. And that's all these measures are.

@Wankerchief

But they are not forced. No one is being frog marched to a centre and tied down, It’s still a choice to get vaccinated or not but if YOU choose not to then you can’t go to certain shops. Online and essential shops are still an option. Suck it up

That's not a choice. It's called coercion FFS.

If I said to you give me your life savings or I burn your house down would you think you had a choice here?!

Having read this thread, I'm shifting my stance a little, and appreciate the arguments for banning.

i resent the insinuations of totalitarianism (and particularly the Nazi crap, of course). Germany has been publicly soul-searching for months about this, until very recently in the hope that it wouldn't come to it. The governments I have experienced in my 2 decades here have been very well aware of the weight of history and and incursions into individual freedoms are not taken lightly. But there is an increasing feeling that those exercising their choice to be unvaccinated (and, let's not forgot, often influencing others to do the same - don't you think that if totalitarianism was behind this, there would have been a crackdown on that?) are beginning to hold everyone else hostage. If y choice you make risks impacting on the wellbeing of others, then the consequence of that will be not stopping you from making the choice, but taking measures to ameliorate that risk to others' wellbeing you are posing. And that's all these measures are

Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself.

It’s not normal.