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Original poster

Thoughts on mandatory vaccination?

239 replies

IllGetTheNextRound · 30/11/2021 23:07

I'm a healthcare professional and I've heard from both colleagues and patients that vaccinations should be mandatory.

This to me is concerning for a few reasons. One of the main reasons is that I think as a public health policy this is really problematic because we are mandating a healthcare intervention on an individual level which takes away their autonomy. And what about children? Compared to many other countries our vaccination uptake is generally excellent. Indeed there is definitely room for improvement, but I worry that mandating this would deter people who otherwise would consider it.

Having said that I'm very pro vaccination and I want as many people to be vaccinated as possible. I have educated many patients and advocated for greater uptake of childhood vaccinations.

If you're passionate about one side of the debate I'd love to hear your thoughts.

OP posts:
GreenWhiteViolet · 30/11/2021 23:18

I'm strongly against it on the grounds of liberty and bodily autonomy. I've had two doses and then declined a booster because I'm not presently comfortable with mRNA vaccines. I'd consider a booster of a different type.

I look at it this way. If you think it should be mandatory because you think the vaccines are great and were delighted to get yours, you're failing to respect the fact that others have different views. You think they're wrong? Okay, but imagine another health intervention that the government and the majority of the population were happy with but you believed was potentially dangerous, or were phobic of, or really didn't want for any other reason. Should they be able to force you to have it? You don't have to agree with a belief to acknowledge that others feel strongly about it.

It doesn't matter whether you think they're completely wrong. It's still their choice to make about their own bodies. The idea of setting a precedent for disregarding that is quite frightening.

Oneliner · 30/11/2021 23:22

All for it.

TheElvishQueen · 30/11/2021 23:32

@GreenWhiteViolet

I'm strongly against it on the grounds of liberty and bodily autonomy. I've had two doses and then declined a booster because I'm not presently comfortable with mRNA vaccines. I'd consider a booster of a different type.

I look at it this way. If you think it should be mandatory because you think the vaccines are great and were delighted to get yours, you're failing to respect the fact that others have different views. You think they're wrong? Okay, but imagine another health intervention that the government and the majority of the population were happy with but you believed was potentially dangerous, or were phobic of, or really didn't want for any other reason. Should they be able to force you to have it? You don't have to agree with a belief to acknowledge that others feel strongly about it.

It doesn't matter whether you think they're completely wrong. It's still their choice to make about their own bodies. The idea of setting a precedent for disregarding that is quite frightening.

I totally agree.
RhubarbTea · 01/12/2021 00:10

@GreenWhiteViolet

I'm strongly against it on the grounds of liberty and bodily autonomy. I've had two doses and then declined a booster because I'm not presently comfortable with mRNA vaccines. I'd consider a booster of a different type.

I look at it this way. If you think it should be mandatory because you think the vaccines are great and were delighted to get yours, you're failing to respect the fact that others have different views. You think they're wrong? Okay, but imagine another health intervention that the government and the majority of the population were happy with but you believed was potentially dangerous, or were phobic of, or really didn't want for any other reason. Should they be able to force you to have it? You don't have to agree with a belief to acknowledge that others feel strongly about it.

It doesn't matter whether you think they're completely wrong. It's still their choice to make about their own bodies. The idea of setting a precedent for disregarding that is quite frightening.

Also completely agree.
TempsPerdu · 01/12/2021 00:12

Very much against any kind of compulsion.

rrhuth · 01/12/2021 00:14

Against on grounds of liberty.

Think people who don't get it are wallies, but support their right to be wallies.

Cariah · 01/12/2021 00:15

Y our right to swing your arm ends when your fist

Cariah · 01/12/2021 00:17

Oops posted too soon! Your right to swing your arm ends when your fist hits my face. And your right to refuse a vaccine ends when that causes a spread of disease that negatively affects me. People can’t be permitted to do what they want if it hurts others.

rrhuth · 01/12/2021 00:19

People can’t be permitted to do what they want if it hurts others. Medical autonomy is more complicated than this.

userperuser · 01/12/2021 00:20

@Cariah

Oops posted too soon! Your right to swing your arm ends when your fist hits my face. And your right to refuse a vaccine ends when that causes a spread of disease that negatively affects me. People can’t be permitted to do what they want if it hurts others.
There’s many things people are permitted to do that hurt others.
Ylvamoon · 01/12/2021 00:22

Generally I am against it too - there should always be a choice. Even if politics/ society is going to ostracise the non vaccinated.

But in certain circumstances, like working with vulnerable people or in very close proximity to patients/ clients I feel that it makes sense to have mandatory vacation.

Ingleduh · 01/12/2021 00:29

I am double jabbed but I don't agree at all with making it mandatory. Your body your choice.

CharlotteRose90 · 01/12/2021 00:30

All for it too. I’m pro vaccination.

NovemberNovemberDarkNights · 01/12/2021 00:31

@Ylvamoon

Generally I am against it too - there should always be a choice. Even if politics/ society is going to ostracise the non vaccinated.

But in certain circumstances, like working with vulnerable people or in very close proximity to patients/ clients I feel that it makes sense to have mandatory vacation.

That's the difference between mandatory for everyone & compulsory for this job.

I totally agree with this!

I would like the Covid vaccine to be mandatory, but I don't like the slippery slope as to where that might end! So if I had to vote I'd vote against it (with a heavy heart).

But as I said, totally behind it being compulsory for certain jobs & entry to places/events/travel.

Medical exemption on 'specialist' say so, or people's genuine medical fear.

CrunchyCarrot · 01/12/2021 00:40

I totally oppose mandating these vaccines, also on the grounds of bodily autonomy. It must always be down to personal choice, and not because you are forced into it in order to participate in society. It's a terrifying slippery slope.

FOJN · 01/12/2021 04:10

I'd like everyone to get the vaccine and I certainly experience some frustration with people, who have chosen to remain poorly informed, refusing it but I can not support mandated vaccines. We should value our right to bodily autonomy and not be willing to set a such dangerous precedent. I might feel differently if the disease was easily transmissible AND had a very high mortality rate but then I suspect, under those circumstances, people would need little persuasion to get vaccinated.

I've had both vaccines, the flu vaccine and my booster is booked.

PAFMO · 01/12/2021 05:41

@Cariah

Oops posted too soon! Your right to swing your arm ends when your fist hits my face. And your right to refuse a vaccine ends when that causes a spread of disease that negatively affects me. People can’t be permitted to do what they want if it hurts others.
This. (Also love the swinging arm analogy and will pinch it Brew)
Antsgomarching · 01/12/2021 05:42

Where I live no-one is forced to take a vaccine BUT you did have to show a vaccine passport to enter malls, restaurants etc. I think this is fair enough tbh. My DD nursery wouldn’t have accepted her if she hadn’t been full vaccinated with the normal childhood vaccines. So it’s not out of the ordinary to stipulate this.I would absolutely never think its ok to force people to take vaccines but O also don’t think people who choose not to should be able to easily put other people at risk (I’m not terrified of COVID either it’s just common sense to try to reduce transmission so elderly and CEV people can also live their lives outside of their homes)

It is a difficult one because obviously if you are unvaccinated and end up in an icu bed you are using a resource that could be used by someone else. If healthcare systems are overwhelmed then it affects everyone else. But forced vaccines is a step too far.

SickAndTiredAgain · 01/12/2021 05:58

I am pro-vaccination, I think everyone should choose to have it.

I am extremely anti mandatory vaccination.

theculture · 01/12/2021 06:18

I am very pro vaccine

But I think whilst we allow social media to post (and make money out of) anti vac stuff we can't be surprised that people who may get most of their news from it believe they shouldn't get vaccinated. There is some interesting stuff in this article about how we classify the info we get from social media equivalent to that from a trusted friend

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/30/life-tragic-death-john-eyers-fitness-fanatic-who-refused-covid-vaccine?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

I don't think we should go down the route of forcing people when there has been no/ little attempt to limit the source of lots of the misinformation

tigger1001 · 01/12/2021 06:20

@GreenWhiteViolet

I'm strongly against it on the grounds of liberty and bodily autonomy. I've had two doses and then declined a booster because I'm not presently comfortable with mRNA vaccines. I'd consider a booster of a different type.

I look at it this way. If you think it should be mandatory because you think the vaccines are great and were delighted to get yours, you're failing to respect the fact that others have different views. You think they're wrong? Okay, but imagine another health intervention that the government and the majority of the population were happy with but you believed was potentially dangerous, or were phobic of, or really didn't want for any other reason. Should they be able to force you to have it? You don't have to agree with a belief to acknowledge that others feel strongly about it.

It doesn't matter whether you think they're completely wrong. It's still their choice to make about their own bodies. The idea of setting a precedent for disregarding that is quite frightening.

Totally agree with this!
Roselilly36 · 01/12/2021 06:31

I wouldn’t support a mandate for compulsory vaccination.

Mistyplanet · 01/12/2021 06:38

When there's a risk there should always be a choice. The fact is some people do get injured by vaccines. instagram.com/alughmani?utm_medium=copy_link
Is an example of someone who was left in a wheelchair after one Pfizer jab. Also if we say vaccines are mandatory i presume we are saying that to save the nhs? Because we know the covid vaccine doesnt stop you getting or spreading covid. The new omricon variant was first found in 4 induviduals who were fully vaccinated. If we are going to make vaccines mandatory on the basis of saving nhs then why dont we make smoking and drinking illegal or junk food? All of which consuming makes you more likely to become ill and need healthcare.

Beachcomber · 01/12/2021 06:46

I'm totally against it for any vaccine but in particular for covid vaccines.

The reason being that currently the risk benefit ratio is unknown. We don't know how long the vaccine protects for (due to both waning and virus mutation). We don't have enough data on who is ar risk of an adverse effect of the vaccines.

Also we appear to now have accepted that the vaccines do not prevent transmission.

The vaccines are currently being used in Europe under special status due to the pandemic and they are reviewed yearly. The manufacturers are therefore required to provide additional data to the European Medicines Agency in order to retain that status. One of the criteria is the efficacity. If that continues to drop as the virus mutates then the vaccine will be in danger of not meeting its current licensing status.

So even before we get on to arguments about ethics and bodily autonomy I think it would be outrageous to mandate these vaccines.

I also have a big ethical issue with mandating a product (which is far from perfect) which makes a lot of money for private businesses.

slippersockgrey · 01/12/2021 06:51

@GreenWhiteViolet

I'm strongly against it on the grounds of liberty and bodily autonomy. I've had two doses and then declined a booster because I'm not presently comfortable with mRNA vaccines. I'd consider a booster of a different type.

I look at it this way. If you think it should be mandatory because you think the vaccines are great and were delighted to get yours, you're failing to respect the fact that others have different views. You think they're wrong? Okay, but imagine another health intervention that the government and the majority of the population were happy with but you believed was potentially dangerous, or were phobic of, or really didn't want for any other reason. Should they be able to force you to have it? You don't have to agree with a belief to acknowledge that others feel strongly about it.

It doesn't matter whether you think they're completely wrong. It's still their choice to make about their own bodies. The idea of setting a precedent for disregarding that is quite frightening.

Totally agree.

People have the right to make unwise decisions about all sorts of things related to healthcare. Take that away and it's a very slippery slope to something people really would not want.