Heartbreaking article in the Guardian.

[deliapith]

Absolutely heart breaking. Will it change anyone's mind re the vaccine I wonder? His family certainly hope so.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/30/life-tragic-death-john-eyers-fitness-fanatic-who-refused-covid-vaccine?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

@AdmiralCain, can we take it that if you get Covid you won't be asking for treatment from the NHS?

Would you share any of the news articles discussing people who have died following vaccination? Why gloat about a sad situation. People who are vaccinated against covid 19 are dying. People who are unvaccinated are dying of covid 19. Gloating about either is distasteful.

You come across as celebrating his death because it backs up your beliefs.

Gruesome, ghoulish and tacky in the extreme.

@Platax I wont actually, don't worry I may be a raving anti covid vaxxer but I'm not a hypocrite. I'm happy to live with the consequences of my decisions. As I do with every aspect of my life.
I'm here for a good time not a long time. I'd rather live 40 years of fun and freedom than another 40 years under the tyranny of the government .

I don’t think you can call this a morality tale - he didn’t get jabbed and very likely died as a result. It’s not morality, it is simple cause and effect.

As the article points out, people aren’t very good at assessing abstract risks, and I think making stories like this heard make those abstract risks much more real.

I still think people should be able make up their own mind about the vaccine, but I think making stories like this heard is important. It’s not just about people who are convinced by anti-vax rhetoric but about people who just haven’t got round to it or don’t feel it’s important them, for whom stories like this may be a helpful prompt.

@XenoBitch well, my best friend hadn’t had any. upuntil now, but has just booked her first vaccination so maybe some people are coming round?

Tbf @AdmiralCain that’s your individual perspective on it and I have to say it’s a very competitive way of framing the situation. There’s no ‘ultimate winner’ here, as there often isn’t in any debate, just people doing what they think best and trying to get on with their lives with as little grief and pain as possible. Vaccinated or unvaccinated, I think it applies to both.

@Worldgonecrazy

Would you share any of the news articles discussing people who have died following vaccination? Why gloat about a sad situation. People who are vaccinated against covid 19 are dying. People who are unvaccinated are dying of covid 19. Gloating about either is distasteful.

You come across as celebrating his death because it backs up your beliefs.

Gruesome, ghoulish and tacky in the extreme.

Both the victim of covid and his family want/ed this talked about in the hopes that more people would decide to be vaccinated. This thread is doing what was asked.

You're attacking posters with extreme language for fulfilling a dying man's request.

Maybe you should ask yourself why this is hitting home to you?

[quote AdmiralCain]@Platax I wont actually, don't worry I may be a raving anti covid vaxxer but I'm not a hypocrite. I'm happy to live with the consequences of my decisions. As I do with every aspect of my life.
I'm here for a good time not a long time. I'd rather live 40 years of fun and freedom than another 40 years under the tyranny of the government .[/quote]
Well, very genuine kudos to you for having the courage of your convictions and for not being a hypocrite. But how do your family and friends feel about that?

@Platax

There was an interesting article in the Sunday Times last week by a an ICU doctor. She said that the covid patients (who make up the vast majority of their caseload) are predominantly people who wouldn't take the vaccine, many of them ostensibly young and fit people, and almost all now desperately regretting it. And, of course, there was a major problem because the pressure on ICU beds meant that planned operations were being cancelled and staff were exhausted.

Sadly, doctors don’t always tell the truth

citizenjournos.com/2021/10/19/the-matergate-lies-dr-emma-keelan/

[quote AdmiralCain]@Platax I wont actually, don't worry I may be a raving anti covid vaxxer but I'm not a hypocrite. I'm happy to live with the consequences of my decisions. As I do with every aspect of my life.
I'm here for a good time not a long time. I'd rather live 40 years of fun and freedom than another 40 years under the tyranny of the government .[/quote]
I don't believe that branding anyone a hypocrite is helpful in these circumstances, but I shall challenge you for saying that you wouldn't seek NHS assistance if you were unfortunate enough to be ill with Covid.

I caught Covid at the end of last year before the vaccinations were available and spent 10 days in hospital as a result. From my own experience of my body gradually failing me and from observing two women in the same ward struggle and die, I can tell you that dying of Covid is not a good death. You don't suddenly fall asleep with happy thoughts of the fun and freedom you have had up until that point.

I don't wish to bore everyone with every aspect of my body's deterioration before I turned the corner to recovery, but one small incident might give some insight.

I had been moved from the general covid ward to the respiratory ward when a C-Pap became available. By this time, I had been ill for almost a week and was too weak to move from my lying position on the bed. C-Pap is brutal, but I had been told that tolerating it improved my chances of survival, so I was getting on with it.

I needed to be helped out of the bed to use the commode and, as I tried to move into a sitting position, I realised nothing was working properly. When I finally managed to put my feet on the floor, I realised I could not put any weight onto them. I then panicked, started coughing and, thinking it would help, tore the C-Pap mask off. At that stage, I...COULD...NOT....BREATHE. Nothing was getting into my lungs. Cue more panic as a nurse helped me put the mask back on.

Would you seek medical help if you were ill enough to need it? Sure you would, and you absolutely should. No-one should be refused medical attention on the basis of vaccine refusal or for any other reason. However, if Covid gets out of hand and the NHS is unable to cope, people WILL be refused medical attention, whether that be for Covid or for cancer, or for heart disease etc etc.

I truly hope you remain healthy enough to enjoy your fun and freedom, but if you and other vaccine refusers were to have the vaccine, you would be helping to protect the NHS's ability to provide treatment for all of us. You would also be making positive steps to maintain your fun and freedom as further lock downs will not be required. Please - just get it done.

PS this is not directed to anyone who cannot have the vaccine for medical reasons, whether they be physical or psychological.

@deliapith

Absolutely heart breaking. Will it change anyone's mind re the vaccine I wonder? His family certainly hope so.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/30/life-tragic-death-john-eyers-fitness-fanatic-who-refused-covid-vaccine?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Everyone pondering whether or not the vaccine is "safe" should read this.

People who do “bodybuilding” are not extremely fit! It’s v damaging to the body. If, as the article states, random men would stop him to ask him how he achieved his physique then the obvious conclusion is the ‘roids gave him heart damage. Really sad.

@SweetBabyCheeses99

People who do “bodybuilding” are not extremely fit! It’s v damaging to the body. If, as the article states, random men would stop him to ask him how he achieved his physique then the obvious conclusion is the ‘roids gave him heart damage. Really sad.

Yep, just keep telling yourself this. Fatal Covid only happens to other because of xyz. Until it happens to you for no reason other than that life is sometimes unfair.

@Platax All of my family haven't had the jab and I'm very clear to point out my vaccine status to family and colleagues.
I'm still friends with everyone whose had the jab, I respect their decision, I don't see them as mindless gerbils, they did what they felt is best for them, I will do what feels best for me. I'm pro choice. Women have fought for too long to control their bodies, especially in america where crusty old 80 year old men are passing legislation on. making abortions illegal and inturn controlling what a woman can do with her body This year, not 100 years ago.
This has such far reaching implications. If my friends whish to distance themselves from me, I won't think any less of them.

Moderna will make $13.8 billion pure profit from the vaccine this year alone, think of all the other pharma companies, this is their wet dreams come true.

@AdmiralCain why haven’t you had the jab if you don’t mind me asking?

I’m pro choice, and I am no fan of companies being able to make huge profits off the pandemic. But not having the jab as a point of principle about either of those things just seems incredibly self-sabotaging.

@CrumpledCrumpet, I quite simply don't trust the governments, the politicians lie. Do you watch Black Mirror by Charlie Brooker? It's not some dystopian fiction, it's really happening, Companies data mining, everything Being digitized, doing away with cash. Every aspect of our lives will be controlled by cooperation's. There was a TV show called Continuum In america (Time travel blah blah) but the senate in the future is called the corporate senate because coperations pretty much run us.
It's happening, google, amazon, they are getting so big they dictate government policy now. That movie enemy of the state, in the blink of an eye they shut down will smiths life, The Chinese have the social point system, If you're a good government pet you get to do stuff, if you are critical of the government doors are closed to you.
V for vendetta, how can you not see this happening?!

Trials without Jury's now, The shit they pump into kids heads at school. If a woman dares to say she is more than just a uterus owner she's called a TERF.
In Scotland they tried to have a named person to take away the rights of parents!
So many laws are passed to take our freedoms away, How many laws are repealed? You all have an idea about what i'm saying, this dark feeling on the horizon that life for our kids won't be the same as ours were.
Quite simply if we allow the government autonomy over our bodies, after covid it will be something else, they'll be another reason for another jab for another thing and if you don't play ball you will be excluded from society. How long did the Japanese sterilize disabled people so they couldn't 'pass on' their undesirable genetic material?

at the moment everybody thinks it's a good idea for everyone to get jabbed, so they are on the governments side, what about in 10 years if there's another procedure they want to do and you're against it, you set the precedent now, well it's happening in Austria, Greece, Germany, you'll loose your ability, it's about human rights for me. Courts are higher then the government, they should protect it's citizens but they don't they side with the government. These are all emergency laws that haven't been scrutinized. Everyone on mumsnet hates the tories, the tories have lied to us so many times believing them again would be like going back to a cheating partner whose cheated on you 9 times - but this time is different and they wont. I really don't think they are acting lawful and I never believe democracy should be suspended for any reason.
Facial recognition, The world doesn't really want 7 billion people doing what they want and slowly but surely they're tightening the net. it's amazing 1984 was a work of fiction and now it's stark warning. I will not allow anybody to do anything to my body that I don't consent to. Your fear of covid does not trump my sovereign right to bodily freedom.

Ha ha. AdmiralCain. What you say makes so much sense. But people on here won't think so and neither will Mumsnet. I wonder how long it will before you are banned. Silenced.

Mumsnet also has to be a good government pet. They are part of the establishment you talk of.

Wow that was quite an answer @AdmiralCain

Though even if you believe all of that, and to be honest there a lot you’ve written that a sympathise with, I don’t see why that precludes you from choosing to have a vaccine that protects you from illness?

Whatever you think about things like mandatory vaccination, vaccine passports, vaccines as requirement for work etc etc, general approach of the government, it does not change the fact there’s a vaccine available, there’s an abundance of real-world evidence now that it protects us from serious illness. Not taking advantage of that because you object to everything that surrounds it is your choice, of course - but it’s an odd one, I have to say.

Unless you’re a full-on conspiracy nut who thinks covid is a hoax?

@fortheloveofallthings

His sister said he had asthma as a child, no mention of it being severe. She also said he hadn't used an inhaler since he was a child so it was clearly not an issue anymore.

If he hadn't used an inhaler since childhood he obviously didn't still have asthma.

[quote AdmiralCain]@CrumpledCrumpet, I quite simply don't trust the governments, the politicians lie. Do you watch Black Mirror by Charlie Brooker? It's not some dystopian fiction, it's really happening, Companies data mining, everything Being digitized, doing away with cash. Every aspect of our lives will be controlled by cooperation's. There was a TV show called Continuum In america (Time travel blah blah) but the senate in the future is called the corporate senate because coperations pretty much run us.
It's happening, google, amazon, they are getting so big they dictate government policy now. That movie enemy of the state, in the blink of an eye they shut down will smiths life, The Chinese have the social point system, If you're a good government pet you get to do stuff, if you are critical of the government doors are closed to you.
V for vendetta, how can you not see this happening?!

Trials without Jury's now, The shit they pump into kids heads at school. If a woman dares to say she is more than just a uterus owner she's called a TERF.
In Scotland they tried to have a named person to take away the rights of parents!
So many laws are passed to take our freedoms away, How many laws are repealed? You all have an idea about what i'm saying, this dark feeling on the horizon that life for our kids won't be the same as ours were.
Quite simply if we allow the government autonomy over our bodies, after covid it will be something else, they'll be another reason for another jab for another thing and if you don't play ball you will be excluded from society. How long did the Japanese sterilize disabled people so they couldn't 'pass on' their undesirable genetic material?

at the moment everybody thinks it's a good idea for everyone to get jabbed, so they are on the governments side, what about in 10 years if there's another procedure they want to do and you're against it, you set the precedent now, well it's happening in Austria, Greece, Germany, you'll loose your ability, it's about human rights for me. Courts are higher then the government, they should protect it's citizens but they don't they side with the government. These are all emergency laws that haven't been scrutinized. Everyone on mumsnet hates the tories, the tories have lied to us so many times believing them again would be like going back to a cheating partner whose cheated on you 9 times - but this time is different and they wont. I really don't think they are acting lawful and I never believe democracy should be suspended for any reason.
Facial recognition, The world doesn't really want 7 billion people doing what they want and slowly but surely they're tightening the net. it's amazing 1984 was a work of fiction and now it's stark warning. I will not allow anybody to do anything to my body that I don't consent to. Your fear of covid does not trump my sovereign right to bodily freedom.[/quote]
I got the vax but I agree with you that no-one should be forced to have it.

@CrumpledCrumpet I feel it's all a lottery with my body, You can have a moderna, pfizer J&J vaccine, than another one than a booster then there will be a second booster jab then another one next year, that's countless combinations of jabs and I don't feel safe with those combinations . There's no control group, It's an experimental drug, the media censure all the death by covid jab related stories, moderna made $13.9 billion pure profit from covid this year, It's an experimental drug, the big pharma companies are 100% insulated against lawsuits for covid vaccine complication deaths .

If you get the vaccine, you still catch it and pass it on. That doesn't sound like much of a vaccine to me, maybe a temporary alleviation?! and all this load of people are asymptomatic rubbish? The radio adverts scaring kids saying if you visit loved one you'll kill them, Christ the fear that must instill in a 7 years old making them think they are a killer. I've read medical journals on myocardial T-cell infiltration,

I believe covid is real and I know people who have caught it. I appreciate the pleasant respectful exchange with you Crumpled Crumpet.

That link is certainly interesting AlecTrevelyan006

My close friend's brother is completely anti vax and claims we are all being chipped, poisoned, controlled and on and on. It seems to change daily. He's been really ill recently with a hacking cough and fever. No PCR obviously as Covid doesn't exist. He has, however, been to visit his Dad who is old, has underlying health issues and is pretty vulnerable in myriad ways.

Today, his Dad is in hospital on a ventilator. He has Covid. He is very, very unwell.

Does his son admit Covid exists? Does he fuck. THEY are saying it's Covid to cover up the truth.

It makes me RAGE.

@QueenofKattegat

That link is certainly interesting AlecTrevelyan006

It is very interesting and depressing. Why on earth would a Dr lie about these things? Must admit I have doubted those kind of statements every time I've seen them as it doesn't stack up with ONS figures. But I actually said to my DP the other day a Dr in Ni had stated it and a friend repeated it to me. Seems the Dr. lied.

[quote AdmiralCain]@CrumpledCrumpet, I quite simply don't trust the governments, the politicians lie. Do you watch Black Mirror by Charlie Brooker? It's not some dystopian fiction, it's really happening, Companies data mining, everything Being digitized, doing away with cash. Every aspect of our lives will be controlled by cooperation's. There was a TV show called Continuum In america (Time travel blah blah) but the senate in the future is called the corporate senate because coperations pretty much run us.
It's happening, google, amazon, they are getting so big they dictate government policy now. That movie enemy of the state, in the blink of an eye they shut down will smiths life, The Chinese have the social point system, If you're a good government pet you get to do stuff, if you are critical of the government doors are closed to you.
V for vendetta, how can you not see this happening?!

Trials without Jury's now, The shit they pump into kids heads at school. If a woman dares to say she is more than just a uterus owner she's called a TERF.
In Scotland they tried to have a named person to take away the rights of parents!
So many laws are passed to take our freedoms away, How many laws are repealed? You all have an idea about what i'm saying, this dark feeling on the horizon that life for our kids won't be the same as ours were.
Quite simply if we allow the government autonomy over our bodies, after covid it will be something else, they'll be another reason for another jab for another thing and if you don't play ball you will be excluded from society. How long did the Japanese sterilize disabled people so they couldn't 'pass on' their undesirable genetic material?

at the moment everybody thinks it's a good idea for everyone to get jabbed, so they are on the governments side, what about in 10 years if there's another procedure they want to do and you're against it, you set the precedent now, well it's happening in Austria, Greece, Germany, you'll loose your ability, it's about human rights for me. Courts are higher then the government, they should protect it's citizens but they don't they side with the government. These are all emergency laws that haven't been scrutinized. Everyone on mumsnet hates the tories, the tories have lied to us so many times believing them again would be like going back to a cheating partner whose cheated on you 9 times - but this time is different and they wont. I really don't think they are acting lawful and I never believe democracy should be suspended for any reason.
Facial recognition, The world doesn't really want 7 billion people doing what they want and slowly but surely they're tightening the net. it's amazing 1984 was a work of fiction and now it's stark warning. I will not allow anybody to do anything to my body that I don't consent to. Your fear of covid does not trump my sovereign right to bodily freedom.[/quote]
Lol what a fucking bullshit ramble..
But I agree we're leaving a shit world for our kids , as we'll have fucked it over and left them to pick up the pieces.