Heartbreaking article in the Guardian.

[deliapith]

Absolutely heart breaking. Will it change anyone's mind re the vaccine I wonder? His family certainly hope so.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/30/life-tragic-death-john-eyers-fitness-fanatic-who-refused-covid-vaccine?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

An alternative view

unherd.com/2021/11/how-fear-fuels-the-vaccine-wars/

[quote ColinTheKoala]There is an interesting comment on this article about him - that he has taken steroids for years and maybe they'd caused damage to his organs. We'll never know but it's a very sad story: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-is-a-reminder-that-no-one-is-invincible-2nzmsbhvc[/quote]
Urm, steroids aren't mentioned in the article once?

Nor is that he had pre-existing organ damage?

Seems uncessary to make up lies about the poor man, may he rest in peace.

I read this earlier and suggested to DP that he speak to anti-vaxxer MIL about getting a jab. Sadly he says there’s just no point as she won’t listen. It’s so selfish as she’s not particularly young but still has teenage children at home

[quote AlecTrevelyan006]An alternative view

unherd.com/2021/11/how-fear-fuels-the-vaccine-wars/[/quote]
They have been busy in Germany. Recently they put up fences in the streets in Hamburg, to separate the Bad Unvaxxed from the Good Vaxxed at the Christmas markets. Outdoors. Perhaps they will also provide the Good people with rocks to throw across those fences. The mood certainly seems ripe. A cartoon recently published in the mainstream, high-circulation newspaper Frankfürter Allgemeine Zeitung featured a man sitting on his sofa playing a first-person shooter game in which the targets were unvaccinated people. The caption described it as “a big hit under the Christmas tree.”

Truly chilling. :(

Why do they only bring these horror stories out during a big vaccine push?

@Watapalava

I'm local to here and his family commented on facebook he had severe asthma - not sure why its excluded from article. Still sad but he did have underlying issues

Only incredibly severe asthma is classed as an underlying issue for Covid. You have to have had two courses of steroids recently or been hospitalised to qualify for shielding or early vaccines/boosters (unless you have a good understanding gp who bends the rules).

It’s nuts and based on flawed data and I don’t agree with it as someone with bad asthma who needs steroid inhalers and bronchilators a day and who was hit hard by Covid.

But …this means the article is technically correct. He had an underlying condition but not one considered to be a Covid risk.

I wonder if the judgement over asthmatic vaccines swayed his antivax decision. If he knew he was vulnerable would he have done differently.

Adding to above…

I can only find articles saying he had asthma, not severe asthma. Can you link to the latter?

There are many degrees of asthma and to be exercising as much as he did I suspect his asthma was very under control which is very different to severe asthma.

Some people live with asthma but just need to use the blue pump a couple of times a year, some people need a brown steroid pump twice a day and blue pump occasionally, some need a brown steroid one twice a day and that stabilises them so they never need blue, some need a stronger steroid pink pump twice a day , some need stronger oral steroids regularly, some need them daily.

Someone with asthma under control and as fit as this would not have been considered at risk under the guidance.

@Watapalava

I'm local to here and his family commented on facebook he had severe asthma - not sure why its excluded from article. Still sad but he did have underlying issues

frumpety
Being obese is of course generally bad for your health, but I thought age was the biggest factor ? how many times have we heard the 'the people who are dying are older than life expectancy' trope on here ? Which of course they maybe, but they probably aren't also the people in ICU beds on ventilators, CPAP possibly, but ventilated probably not.

So who are the people in ICU ?

This is a good point

I've lost count of the times my friend has told me she doesn't need the vaccine because she eats well, exercises, is fit and healthy for a 60 year old and that 60 is "not elderly" anyway, so no problem.

Now what she is saying might be true to some extent but on the other hand I worry that she is refusing the vaccine and does not understand that the age factor is a sliding scale. She might have a very healthy lifestyle, but no one at 60, or even 40, has the immune system of most unhealthy, partying boozing and burger eating, 25 year olds.

The problem is, as more and more jabs become required to be fully jabbed, it is more difficult for those who don't have any jabs to change their mind.

If you have no jabs and are on the fence but maybe want to go on holiday or do something requiring you to be fully jabbed, its not going to be long before that will be 3 jabs. To receive 3 jabs will take a good few months leaving the weeks between each jab.

I think this is going to put off any on the fencers because more jabs mean the end goal of fully jabbed benefits becomes more and more out of reach.

@Flaxmeadow

frumpety Being obese is of course generally bad for your health, but I thought age was the biggest factor ? how many times have we heard the 'the people who are dying are older than life expectancy' trope on here ? Which of course they maybe, but they probably aren't also the people in ICU beds on ventilators, CPAP possibly, but ventilated probably not.

So who are the people in ICU ?

This is a good point

I've lost count of the times my friend has told me she doesn't need the vaccine because she eats well, exercises, is fit and healthy for a 60 year old and that 60 is "not elderly" anyway, so no problem.

Now what she is saying might be true to some extent but on the other hand I worry that she is refusing the vaccine and does not understand that the age factor is a sliding scale. She might have a very healthy lifestyle, but no one at 60, or even 40, has the immune system of most unhealthy, partying boozing and burger eating, 25 year olds.

I think for a lot of people as they get older they become in total denial about their own mortality. 40 is middle aged (I’m 41 by the way) but it seems that everyone in their 40s now wants to think they’re as young as someone in their 20s and everyone seems to think 60 isn’t old. It is. That’s fine, it is what it is but it’s doing no one any favours to keep pretending someone in their 60s has the same immune system and health of someone (without underlying health issues) in their teens / 20s. It just isn’t realistic. Even if you don’t drink / smoke and do a lot of exercise you can’t skip the fact your body itself is older.

@AlecTrevelyan006 how is that post helpful ?

I know some people will not have the vaccines for whatever reason. I do not want any of those people to die from covid. I do want them to allow in the thought that there is a small chance that they will need treatment if they catch covid. I also want them to seek help if they do need treatment for covid, rather than assuming they will be fine, the sooner they seek help, hopefully the better the outcome.

I’m sure everyone knows there is a small chance that if thatch Covid then they will need treatment - that is in fact one of the reasons some choose not to be vaccinated. It is still the case, as it has been right from the start, that for the overwhelming vast majority of people, Covid is a mild illness even among the most vulnerable groups.

I’m double jabbed and will get my booster in due course - but it should always be a personal choice.

I knew John, a bit.

I really dislike that 'lost to the virus' series in the Guardian. It's mawkish, prurient and needlessly picks over the fine details of personal tragedy for public consumption.

You can practically hear the Simon Bates Our Tune music crank up every time they publish one of these. Tragedy porn of the worst kind and I wish they'd stop doing it.

@Dasher789

The problem is, as more and more jabs become required to be fully jabbed, it is more difficult for those who don't have any jabs to change their mind.

If you have no jabs and are on the fence but maybe want to go on holiday or do something requiring you to be fully jabbed, its not going to be long before that will be 3 jabs. To receive 3 jabs will take a good few months leaving the weeks between each jab.

I think this is going to put off any on the fencers because more jabs mean the end goal of fully jabbed benefits becomes more and more out of reach.

This is a good point. Perhaps vaccination status for travel should be at least two vaccines with the second in the last six months.

@AlecTrevelyan006

I’m sure everyone knows there is a small chance that if thatch Covid then they will need treatment - that is in fact one of the reasons some choose not to be vaccinated. It is still the case, as it has been right from the start, that for the overwhelming vast majority of people, Covid is a mild illness even among the most vulnerable groups.

I’m double jabbed and will get my booster in due course - but it should always be a personal choice.

Vaccines are for everyone, thats the whole point. Get to a critical mass where the virus can no longer easily circulate...that way those who cannot have it or the offered protection is low for them are protected by the masses. It's so fucking basic. Shall we wait untill our kids are older and get thier permission for MMR etc ?

His sister said he had asthma as a child, no mention of it being severe. She also said he hadn't used an inhaler since he was a child so it was clearly not an issue anymore.

I’m sure everyone knows there is a small chance that if thatch Covid then they will need treatment

I wish I had your confidence.

There are two families on my parents' street in my home town, both convinced Covid is a hoax and the vaccine is poison. One family lost the Mum to Covid 6 months ago and the other family lost the Dad just last week. It's absolutely heart wrenching to see their pain but they are still adamant that "they" just say it was Covid as the hospital gets money after each patient declared as Covid death so they need to keep the numbers up and they Redon they will never know what their respective loved one actually died of.
I wouldn't even know what to say to these people, seems like there is no bloody way to reason with them or to get through and if the loss of their loved ones won't convince them, I genuinely don't know what would. I do pray for them and their children who are the same age as me and DB. We all grew up together and it's incredibly sad 😞

Honestly I am so fed up with people thinking underlying health issues is at best a way to discount themselves from any risk from COVID and at worst a way to victim blame.

That is incredibly sad, but also incredibly unusual!

@SinisterBumFacedCat

Honestly I am so fed up with people thinking underlying health issues is at best a way to discount themselves from any risk from COVID and at worst a way to victim blame.

But underlying health conditions are the best predictor of poor outcomes - it's not an attack on anyone, it's just a fact.

I haven't had my jabs and I wont. It's my body and choice. I'm sorry he's dead but everyday they are laying it on so thick "anti vaxer dies - family wish he'd of had the jab" The propaganda machine is working overtime. The more they spout this rhetoric the less I want it.

When someone does get the vaccine and dies from it the family always say " It's what they believed in, they died doing something they believe in and they'd do it again" Yeah right.
All the jabbed people are on the 'right side' and i'm on the 'wrong side' and I see it as the government forcing state autonomy over my body. Having the polio jab was never compulsory! wait until the government want to enforce their beliefs on something else and all the people on the 'right side' now find them selves on the 'wrong side' but cant do anything as they allowed the government absolute control.
I've been a law abiding citizen all my life and now because of my beliefs at some point i'll be unlawful. one by one, Austria, Germany, Greece every country will force it's citizens to have the jab by attrition.

There was an interesting article in the Sunday Times last week by a an ICU doctor. She said that the covid patients (who make up the vast majority of their caseload) are predominantly people who wouldn't take the vaccine, many of them ostensibly young and fit people, and almost all now desperately regretting it. And, of course, there was a major problem because the pressure on ICU beds meant that planned operations were being cancelled and staff were exhausted.