Utterly fed up (covid)

[ExpectingLady93]

I'm totally fed up. I don't doubt for a second everyone else is. It's now been a couple of years, we've had our jabs... just doesn't seem to be putting us back to normal like we were 'promised'?

It still doesn't seem to change the fact that there is now a new variant and they are not 'ruling' out another lockdown, and right before Christmas also. I worry for my friends and family (and everyone else). My parents are getting on a bit and I think it would break my mums heart if they put us into lockdown again before Christmas like last year.....

How is everyone else feeling?

[quote WheelieBinPrincess]@Gerlais they have to put the willies up people to get a general level of compliance.[/quote]
This.
Finally lost patience today at work with a woman who was saying that the gvt needs to put restrictions in place because the ‘Omincrom’ variant might be more dangerous etc - er no! Naming it On income is a marketing ploy anyway -if they had followed the Greek alphabet it would have been Xi, but that is not scary enough…

@WouldBeGood

Shows the uselessness of masks and vaccine passports

This. Terrifying how easily people comply. And completely agree -masks are pointless but they send a signal to BE SCARED.

"Nice to see it finally acknowledged by a scientist."

Whoopee! You've found one! But he's the one that right, and all the others are wrong, because that's what you want to be correct!

It's just like Brexit. Saint Patrick of Minford was endlessly trotted out as an economist saying that Brexit was a good idea and even he admitted that it would decimate our farming and production industries and the other 99% were all wrong, because that didn't fit with the narrative...

@HannibalHayeski
I don't think that's a fair comment here.

This scientist (who is a professor at Oxford) made the factual observation that case rates in Scotland have been similar to case rates in England since England lifted its mask mandate. That is not really in dispute and is not controversial.

He went on to extrapolate from that that England should not expect a mask mandate to be effective in controlling omicron. Essentially he is saying that the Scottish mask mandate does not appear to have had a noticeable effect on case numbers. That may be more controversial but is not an unreasonable conclusion on the basis of the data.

I have not seen any scientist address this point or propose a counter-view. To do so you would need to argue that actually Scottish (and Welsh and NI) cases have been reduced by mask mandates so would have been higher than English cases without them. That begs the question of why English cases would naturally have been lower. You might pose an explanation based on lower natural immunity in Scotland, Wales and NI for example but I haven't seen any scientist do so.

So it is hardly like this one scientist is standing against the majority on this point. It just hasn't been addressed widely - but it is significant because Scotland, Wales and NI are our closest comparators and if mask mandates are not working to reduce cases there (or if they are) this is useful information.

The second point I mentioned was a critique of a large study conducted in Bangladesh, which was reported as finding that masks are around 10% effective. This study was significant because it was a controlled trial. However, the raw data was not published when the study was published. A professor at Berkeley now has access to the raw data and has observed that the difference in covid case numbers between the control group and group who were encouraged to wear masks was 20 cases. He concludes that the effect is not statistically significant and also points out that the study appears to prove that red masks are significantly more effective than identical purple masks (which is obviously absurd). Other scientists may well disagree with this analysis but they are significant points (if true) which would significantly undermine some of the supposedly best quality evidence on mask efficacy and merit further exploration. Scientists could not have made this observation about the study at the time it was published because they didn't have the raw data.

This scientist (who is a professor at Oxford) made the factual observation that case rates in Scotland have been similar to case rates in England since England lifted its mask mandate. That is not really in dispute and is not controversial.

Scotland is not England though. Nowhere near the same population density. Also not the same ethnic demographic, genetics, transport networks, urbanisation and so on. Scotland is more like Denmark than England

So we should have fewer cases then @Flaxmeadow?

Nonsensical

The masks don’t work

So we should have fewer cases then @Flaxmeadow?

But you need to find a similar country, with similar restrictions over a long period of time, to compare with.

Comparing England with Scotland is not comparing like with like. Whatever side of an argument or whatever the point being made

Scotland is a small country, away from the continent. England isn't.

Yes. You really are...

Comparing England with Scotland is not comparing like with like. Whatever side of an argument or whatever the point being made

I'm tempted to dig back through every one of your posts and make sure that you have NEVER dared to compare the UK to Singapore, or Australia, or New Zealand, or Hong Kong, or mainland Europe, or Vietnam, or...

Kokeshi123

Crack on.

Most of the Scottish population lives in the central belt of Scotland. Glasgow and Edinburgh are only 50 miles apart. Glasgow in particular has high levels of deprivation.

Mask wearing can't protect against covid particles in aerosols. Droplets but not aerosols.

Scotland has a slightly colder climate than England, higher levels of substance misuse and higher levels of obesity, but as far as I can see is otherwise extremely similar to England geographically and demographically. Yes it has some sparsely populated areas but so does England.

...

@Flaxmeadow

This scientist (who is a professor at Oxford) made the factual observation that case rates in Scotland have been similar to case rates in England since England lifted its mask mandate. That is not really in dispute and is not controversial.

Scotland is not England though. Nowhere near the same population density. Also not the same ethnic demographic, genetics, transport networks, urbanisation and so on. Scotland is more like Denmark than England

This would skew it the other way

All the attributes you list would more likely lead to lower cases not higher

[quote ExpectingLady93]@Confusedteacher I'm fed up yes, as well as the majority of people but that doesn't mean for one second I can and WILL go out and freely do what I want although I do miss those days!!

Sorry to hear you have covid. I'm pregnant and terrified that I'm going to get it. [/quote]
We're all fed up but It's posts like this that confuse me. You more scared of getting it and can't & wont go about freely.

It's as if you seem to believe that if there is another lockdown or stricter rules imposed and you break them, you're more like to get covid than if the govt don't introduce new restrictions

If you out yourself in a situation where you're more likely to catch it (crowded place, no mask etc) you're more likely to get it regardless of what the govt has said.

I have not seen any scientist address this point or propose a counter-view. To do so you would need to argue that actually Scottish (and Welsh and NI) cases have been reduced by mask mandates so would have been higher than English cases without them. That begs the question of why English cases would naturally have been lower. You might pose an explanation based on lower natural immunity in Scotland, Wales and NI for example but I haven't seen any scientist do so.

I'm not a scientist but could it possibly be herd immunity? Scotland had lower cases per 100,000 than England through much of the pandemic. Not necessarily the first lockdown but after Boris lifted the lockdown in England, Scotland was much stricter for months after and had additional lockdowns. At this point the Scottish numbers were significantly lower. M

So I'm wondering if it could be why people on Scotland are now catching it at the same level as England? If the herd immunity thing is right, the Scottish rates should actually be higher than England so maybe the masks are preventing to help that?

Herd immunity could be a factor @itlod

I have not seen any scientist address this point or propose a counter-view. To do so you would need to argue that actually Scottish (and Welsh and NI) cases have been reduced by mask mandates so would have been higher than English cases without them. That begs the question of why English cases would naturally have been lower. You might pose an explanation based on lower natural immunity in Scotland, Wales and NI for example but I haven't seen any scientist do so.

Perhaps that most spread is in situations where people aren’t wearing masks in Scotland, Wales or NI either - in the household, in the workplace etc.

Herd immunity could well be a factor in Scotland. Also, to the point about spread in places where masks aren’t worn. I read recently that spread is currently highest in the 5-9 age group - I’m not sure if that’s Scotland or UK wide, but either way, kids in primary schools up here aren’t wearing masks.

I guess the Covidiots wouldn't bother checking the BMJ, it's not written all in capitals, after all...