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Covid

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New Covid variant *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

998 replies

Wingingthis · 25/11/2021 11:56

Can anyone talk some sense about how dangerous this is or is it just the media over exaggerating?

OP posts:
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julieca · 27/11/2021 11:45

No one can give data. This is in case it is a real issue. If they don't stop flights, then yes restrictions might be needed over Christmas. They are desperately trying to stop that happen.

MarshaBradyo · 27/11/2021 11:49

I haven’t said otherwise.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 27/11/2021 11:52

I agree with @RedToothBrush

VikingOnTheFridge · 27/11/2021 12:03

The problem with arguments in favour of bringing back restrictions is that they tend not to adequately consider the increasing likelihood of non-compliance as people get more fed up with them, and the negative impact generally of there being rules that can't be enforced. This is particularly so for the ones that involve socialising.

The consequences if people did wear masks properly, SD etc are not necessarily the same as the consequences of making those things mandatory again. RTB is unpalatably and inconveniently correct, and virtually none of the people arguing for more restrictions ever address the impact of people just not doing it. And if this new strain is as transmissible as some of the reports suggest, masks on public transport and in Tesco aren't going to touch the fucking sides.

Delatron · 27/11/2021 12:06

If Covid is here to stay then is this not the future? There will always be new variants. What’s the long term plan? Hopefully it is as we are doing. Stop flights if it looks concerning. No restrictions because we are beyond that being a long term strategy. Crack on with boosters. Tweak vaccines. Invest long term on to the health service (won’t happen but it should).

Is there an argument for moving boosters forward a month? Myself and many 40+ are chomping at the bit! My date is 21st Dec. Would love some immunity top up whilst it goes through the schools and Christmas party season begins.
Don’t fancy having waning immunity at this time of year. Should it be 5 months? Due to new variant
and time of year?

Delatron · 27/11/2021 12:07

I also agree with @RedToothBrush and she’s talked sense through all of this.

VikingOnTheFridge · 27/11/2021 12:08

I wouldn't mind having my booster early. Not due til well into Jan.

Delatron · 27/11/2021 12:13

I don’t think there’s a medical reason for it to be 6 months? Even just bringing them forward by a few weeks would help.

You don’t want lots of 40+ to maybe delay over Christmas and then not be protected through all the Christmas mixing.

I was unsure about taking up the 21st Dec as didn’t want to feel ropey over Christmas if the vaccine affected me. Decided it was better to get it as soon as possible but I know many may delay.

Plus vaccination centres will be closed maybe that Christmas week. Seems like a perfect storm to me. If I was in government I’d switch it to 5 months just for that extra protection for a large part of the population going in to Christmas mixing.

Many of my 40 something friends currently have Covid following kids bringing it home.

Quartz2208 · 27/11/2021 12:13

I agree boosters earlier could work if there are the appointments free and double vaccinating the 12-15 year olds

julieca · 27/11/2021 12:16

@Delatron

If Covid is here to stay then is this not the future? There will always be new variants. What’s the long term plan? Hopefully it is as we are doing. Stop flights if it looks concerning. No restrictions because we are beyond that being a long term strategy. Crack on with boosters. Tweak vaccines. Invest long term on to the health service (won’t happen but it should).

Is there an argument for moving boosters forward a month? Myself and many 40+ are chomping at the bit! My date is 21st Dec. Would love some immunity top up whilst it goes through the schools and Christmas party season begins.
Don’t fancy having waning immunity at this time of year. Should it be 5 months? Due to new variant
and time of year?

The scientists have always said until every country is safe, no country is safe. So no not the future. But the west has to try and make sure poorer countries get vaccines and help to administer them.
julieca · 27/11/2021 12:17

There arent enough booster appointments in some parts of the country for those already eligible to easily get a booster. A friend with cancer is travelling an hour today as it was the only way she could get an appointment for her booster.

Delatron · 27/11/2021 12:25

That’s frustrating about appointments.

I think I got lucky as there were loads near me. What a shame it’s such a postcode lottery when some people are more need than others.

Well access to boosters should be a priority to be sorted then. Nobody should be travelling for an hour.

MarshaBradyo · 27/11/2021 12:26

Very easy here. On the day of six months and loads of options

London though

Thewiseoneincognito · 27/11/2021 12:31

In part I agree with you @RedToothBrush we are now past the point of no return because they have lost the fear in the public as we have 40k cases per day and life is back to ‘normal’. Seeing elderly people, obese, sick people and disabled ones carrying on without masks going about their lives in crowded Christmas markets and theatres is just astounding to me just with Delta.

Regardless of the new variant, things were bad before but the perception of risk has been diminished somewhat and folks tend to accept high cases and a steady death toll for better or worse reliant only on vaccines and trusting those around them aren’t ignoring positive PCR results.

My concern is we seem to be approaching a perfect storm if the R is higher than Delta and vaccines are ineffective to a degree against it. We now have cold weather coupled with festive events and large gatherings for over the next month. The fallout from those was predicted to be bad enough already without this new variant in the mix, plan B was on the table watching the ‘European storm clouds’. Omicrons storm clouds may be a hurricane in comparison, true we don’t know but I’m not sure we’re in a position to confidently wait and see.

If the vaccines don’t work as well we have a good 3 months waiting for the tweaks and manufacture of boosters, that’s at least 3 months of most of our vulnerable being sitting ducks in the worst time of the year for Covid. The fallout from that could be equal if not worse than our winter wave last year (when we had mitigation’s in place), this time we have nothing in place and a Covid fatigued population.

As you say behaviours will only change if deaths and hospitalisations increase dramatically. Perhaps only then people would understand why certain activities and settings are deemed too high of a risk. By this point it may be too late and we experience a wave that could potentially engulf many more than before and have a catastrophic impact on the NHS.

julieca · 27/11/2021 12:36

Yes there are worries the average R for this new variant could be 2. If that is the case deaths will increase purely as a result of that rate.

MarshaBradyo · 27/11/2021 12:38

In terms of U.K. being in a difficult place wrt a new variant that causes more issues, most countries are too

Countries seeing a rise in protests / riots or just getting back travel or waiting for it

We would all be very badly affected and might find greater issues

manolantern · 27/11/2021 12:57

Thread from a virologist:

twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1464550752991514624

My mid-70s CV/CEV are definitely carrying on as normal, off to the cinema on Monday they tell me to see a film that did not even get good reviews! But the boredom of lockdown & having seen people of their age group die of other causes means they've just had enough, they're putting all their faith in the booster & will do whatever they want to do now. Can't spend days sitting on the sofa any more, that would be another form of death to them.

manolantern · 27/11/2021 12:57

Missing word "parents"

manolantern · 27/11/2021 12:59

@julieca

Yes there are worries the average R for this new variant could be 2. If that is the case deaths will increase purely as a result of that rate.
Although it's being pointed out that it's reassuring that this variant has been discovered through genomic surveillance, not because of overflowing hospitals in Botswana/South Africa!

There are reports of a case in Germany now. My guess is there will be one found in the UK before Monday.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/11/2021 13:04

Superb post at 10.01, RedTooth Brush, though I don't know where the R36 has come from. I realise you were only quoting it, but I can't seem to find that anywhere so wonder if it's more competitive scaremongering from the lower reaches of SM

Delatron · 27/11/2021 13:05

R rate of Delta is around 5. Shows how well the vaccines are working.

There’s a lot of speculation on here. Lots of ‘if the vaccines don’t work’. If this, if that. I think it’s best to see what we discover over the next few weeks.

Thewiseoneincognito · 27/11/2021 13:09

@Delatron

R rate of Delta is around 5. Shows how well the vaccines are working.

There’s a lot of speculation on here. Lots of ‘if the vaccines don’t work’. If this, if that. I think it’s best to see what we discover over the next few weeks.

What if they ‘don’t work as well’ and we’ve wasted a few weeks waiting to discover this?

By that point the horse has bolted and the stable is now a barn conversion with underfloor heating.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/11/2021 13:11

There’s a lot of speculation on here

Nothing new about that, Delatron. It fascinates me that HQ delete various threads because of supposedly disallowed "speculation" but allow it to run wild on this particular subject

herecomesthsun · 27/11/2021 13:20

I don't see so much of a problem with people going to Christmas markets if they are outside.

I think indoor Christmas parties and get-togethers at home would likely be more of an issue.

(still planning to try and make some events, we have some quite effective masks)

herecomesthsun · 27/11/2021 13:33

Well, I admire Sharon Peacock (who has been a leader in UK genome sequencing) and I think she has a point with respect to some focussed restrictions buying a bit of time for senior medics and scientists to help quietly plan management of this.

I don't see the point in either panicking about this or throwing our hands up in the air and saying there's nothing we can do so let's pretend it isn't happening.

www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2021/11/26/travel-restrictions-buy-uk-time-to-prepare-for-new-variant-expert-suggests/

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