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Covid

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New Covid variant *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

998 replies

Wingingthis · 25/11/2021 11:56

Can anyone talk some sense about how dangerous this is or is it just the media over exaggerating?

OP posts:
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Quartz2208 · 27/11/2021 08:54

I thought it was notable that they said it was a marked change in profile - given that was something said about Delta. How much of a Delta wave did it actually have? I thought the feeling was it had a high level of natural immunity but its cases are 30% of ours and its population is fairly similar.

I think all of this just shows that actually gaining more data is the way forward on this one

JanglyBeads · 27/11/2021 08:55

15% of travellers from two SA flights to Amsterdam tested positive. (If you’re fully vaxxed you can board a SA plane without pre testing.)

We weren’t testing anyone landing yesterday, just advising they get day 2 and 8 tests….

www.reuters.com/world/europe/passengers-south-africa-face-wait-covid-19-testing-amsterdam-2021-11-26/

theDudesmummy · 27/11/2021 09:01

@lalahotpants thanks for asking about my daughter. She can't get a pcr till Monday. No idea if she will get a flight. I guess the hope is that after the initial flight cancellations, some flights might resume once countries get hotel quarantine set up. Her lectures and exams are online for the rest of the term, so let's hope there is a way back after that. She called last night but I had already gone to bed, it was a draining day!

Octavia174 · 27/11/2021 09:03

@RedToothBrush We are not doing everything possible at all, around 45k cases per day, avg of 150 daily deaths and NHS that is in complete crisis & all before we even get into the winter period.

The Govt's aim has been to limit economic loss & nothing else..

This new variant may or may not be the one that evades vaccines but to just limit flights and then sit on our hands is stupid beyond belief.

We need to re introduce SD and mask wearing, regardless of a new variant.

theDudesmummy · 27/11/2021 09:09

I find it crazy that the UK abandoned mandatory mask wearing and SD at all.

GreatBigBeautifulTommorow · 27/11/2021 09:13

@Octavia174 agree 100%

Coming into winter even without new variant social distancing and mask wearing should be brought back as mandatory.

Octavia174 · 27/11/2021 09:14

@theDudesmummy

I find it crazy that the UK abandoned mandatory mask wearing and SD at all.
Exactly! Anecdotally, was in my local supermarket, usually around 50% wear masks, last night it was almost everyone & a queue for the hand sanitiser.... a one off or people doing what the Govt should be mandating but then again, we have an idiot in power who wont even wear a mask on a train or in a hospital.
theDudesmummy · 27/11/2021 09:27

Everyone here (Ireland) still masked (mandatory indoors), which I am happy about, but our case numbers are still high. I don't go out much. I imagine Omicron is probably here, we have a lot of South Africans in Ireland.

BonneMaman15 · 27/11/2021 09:38

Again anecdotally, at my office yesterday, people were waiting for the next lift and not going into a lift if someone was already in. On the tube, usually packed at 6pm rush hour, people were not sitting on seats immediately next to someone, preferring to stand.

kirinm · 27/11/2021 09:44

@BonneMaman15

Again anecdotally, at my office yesterday, people were waiting for the next lift and not going into a lift if someone was already in. On the tube, usually packed at 6pm rush hour, people were not sitting on seats immediately next to someone, preferring to stand.
That was definitely not the case during the day on the district.
alborana · 27/11/2021 09:45

I was on the tube yesterday in central London. My experience was different. About 40% of people wearing masks and people standing/sitting close to each other.

In my local area of London almost no-one is wearing masks. I'd say about 2%. No social distancing. Life is back to normal. On public transport it's mandatory but on local buses I'd say less than 50%.

ColouringPencils · 27/11/2021 09:47

Interesting re changes in behaviour so quickly. Good news, I hope! I wasn't in the office Friday, but on Thursday I was one of only 3 on packed rush hour bus wearing a mask. Even older women (who I always thought the most cautious group) now tending not to wear them here. It is such a simple measure, I really hope people start to use them again.

@Hairbrush123 re my posting of the Guardian article. No, it says they don't know yet if the cases are all new variant.

FreeBritnee · 27/11/2021 09:56

They know they can’t keep this out. It’s already here. The hope was to slow it down so we could play catch up with the science. I guess we’re going to have to see what this thing does.

tallduckandhandsome · 27/11/2021 09:57

@alborana

I was on the tube yesterday in central London. My experience was different. About 40% of people wearing masks and people standing/sitting close to each other.

In my local area of London almost no-one is wearing masks. I'd say about 2%. No social distancing. Life is back to normal. On public transport it's mandatory but on local buses I'd say less than 50%.

in my experience on the tube (Victoria line, after a work night out), everyone, literally everyone, was wearing a mask except me.

I noticed the looks and thankfully found a mask in my rucksack, as I don’t wear one anymore.

RedToothBrush · 27/11/2021 10:01

[quote Octavia174]@RedToothBrush We are not doing everything possible at all, around 45k cases per day, avg of 150 daily deaths and NHS that is in complete crisis & all before we even get into the winter period.

The Govt's aim has been to limit economic loss & nothing else..

This new variant may or may not be the one that evades vaccines but to just limit flights and then sit on our hands is stupid beyond belief.

We need to re introduce SD and mask wearing, regardless of a new variant.[/quote]
You can only have restriction for so long before they are rendered untenable.

We have reached that point. Even Chris Whitty is quoted as saying that this morning.

Not to mention the harms of restrictions that everyone wants to just ignore because they are so focused on covid.

Most of the cases in the UK are in young age groups. Hospitalisations of the over 65s have actually gone down recently.

The problem with the uk is our structural vulnerability to covid in the first place - we don't have enough doctors and nurses, people are too poor to follow restrictions, people are too unhealthy to avoid getting very ill and we have a population with genetics more suseptable to covid. That means we were already fucked before the pandemic started.

You can't stop the tide anymore than you can stop a pandemic.

At most we can slow it down for a bit, but if this new one is as infectious as feared then covid passports and masks are going to make very little difference indeed.

Cases have been identified in Australia now which still has limited travel options to and from, a Belgian who has never been to Southern Africa, a case in HK in someone who was in a hotel room opposite someone who had it and 600 people from flights from SA to Amsterdam are stranded pending further tests because 61 have covid (I somehow doubt that they got on that flight without lots of the usual precautions first) and they are worried its Omincrom.

If the R is 36 like some are suggesting, virtually all restrictions including lockdowns won't touch the sides of a wave of it. This is the stark reality.

We've vaccinated a huge number of people and are cracking on with boosters. We shouldn't mandate vaccines as that creates as many problems as it solves.

There are reasonable limits as to what is actually viable and realistic. And what is achievable in the face of a mutant R36 variant.

Just cos X country has done Y doesn't mean that a) its suitable for the uk or b) would even have the desired effect in the UK.

Vaccines really were the only thing that could and can let us return to some semblence of normality.

Unfortunately we have this unrealistic idea that all deaths can be prevented. This is still to finish playing out and countries with low death rates but also low vaccine rates are still a lot more vulnerable than the UK is to this new super variant. The numbers aren't in on this yet - we may yet be grateful that we had higher circulation of Delta than others.

Honestly, I am anxious about this. I don't like it. I'm not anti-restrictions - they've not really affected my family that much all things considered. I am just realistic about where we are now and how much more can realistically be achieved, how much harm they cause and how likely they are to spark civil unrest.

We have crossed the Rubicon. There is no going back. Otherwise we could be stuck with this for years and years more without anyone having a viable answer or strategy for how we carry on as before.

Our country is structured in a way that the poor can't afford more restrictions in terms of their finances, health (both directly and indirectly from covid), their life opportunities and just quality of life generally. And the government can't just throw money at the problem in a short term way to fix or even mitigate many of those problems. In part because of a loss of trust in authority and feeling sold down river anyway. Sure you can give the NHS a tonne of money, but how does that stop millions being obese in the next 2 or 3 months where its relevant to your chances of surviving covid? Sure you can try and persuade people to change lifestyles but if they don't trust you, why would they follow your advice anyway?

Restrictions only work or are enforcable by public consent and it being high enough to maintain order. There isn't enough police / army to enforce them if people aren't willing to follow by their own free will.

If you close nightclubs, you'd get illegal raves and mass house parties. If you close pubs, people would drink at home and have friends over. If you have a curfew, you can't be everywhere. If you ban alcohol you create a blackmarket or people will mark their own.

The only thing that would actually change minds is seeing it play out badly either here or in Europe with huge numbers of deaths from covid. There has to be real fear. And even then how does that work for those who don't have the luxury of a job they can stay home for? How do you get these people to see restrictions as worthwhile for them too, when they've been exposed all day at work anyway?

Honestly. With the best will in the world, at this point in time with all the fuck ups previously and all the unique factors in the UK, on balance I think going forward there is little more to be done.

I really wish that those who harp on about restrictions most would actually face up to this and give proper answers to these crucial questions without just giving flippant responses which they like the sound of which ignore the real problems.

Yes we could have done better on somethings. No we can't change that. Nor can we magically be in a different point in the pandemic to the one we find ourselves in.

Octavia174 · 27/11/2021 10:13

@RedToothBrush There plenty of scientists who believe we should have some restrictions.

Its not simplistic to suggest that removing all restrictions, whilst having a very poor health service is a great idea.

The research on mask wearing and SD is fairly conclusive, we should not rely on just vaccines.

On compliance, just come back from Spain, most people abide by some limited restrictions, such as mask wearing, as does France.

Both countries have had very much lower infection rates and deaths than the UK, yes increasing but at a rate they can deal with.

As i said, BJ was always a denier and a supporter of herd immunity, just as his friend Trump was, its not disputed he said let the bodies pile high.

ColouringPencils · 27/11/2021 10:35

The weird thing is, things like wearing masks on public transport and opening windows are not really restrictions. They don't harm the economy or people's livelihoods. They could prevent restrictions.
But we talk about the different measures like they are all bringing us back to lockdown.

SmellyOldOwls · 27/11/2021 10:46

@RedToothBrush that's not what Chris Whitty said at all!

RedToothBrush · 27/11/2021 10:48

[quote Octavia174]@RedToothBrush There plenty of scientists who believe we should have some restrictions.

Its not simplistic to suggest that removing all restrictions, whilst having a very poor health service is a great idea.

The research on mask wearing and SD is fairly conclusive, we should not rely on just vaccines.

On compliance, just come back from Spain, most people abide by some limited restrictions, such as mask wearing, as does France.

Both countries have had very much lower infection rates and deaths than the UK, yes increasing but at a rate they can deal with.

As i said, BJ was always a denier and a supporter of herd immunity, just as his friend Trump was, its not disputed he said let the bodies pile high.[/quote]
I have found a lot of these scientists still only focus on covid because its not within their remit to look at other indirect health factors and thats the main reason I don't find them terribly compelling tbh.

You cannot compare whats happening in France and Spain as they are culturally different and have had different restriction experiences which shape how people view things now.

The main issue is that once you remove the restriction its harder to bring it back. I don't think France or Spain ever completely removed mask restrictions so that is very much relevant.

Quartz2208 · 27/11/2021 11:02

Mask wearing though with this hasn’t been researched - South Africa has some of the harshest mask wearing rules about including outside

JanglyBeads · 27/11/2021 11:07

This helped me understand a bit more about the mutations being discussed:

twitter.com/mroliverbarnes/status/1464344471290761225?s=21

DoormatBob · 27/11/2021 11:15

If you bring back restrictions how will that prevent another variant emerging in another country in 18 months time.

For me this latest variant simply demonstrates it can never go away? The world is just too interlinked.

julieca · 27/11/2021 11:33

@RedToothBrush the focus of scientists has always been on other indirect deaths as well. Back in March 2020, the estimate of numbers who would die included those who dies because they couldn't get treatment.
While the healthy have been happy to accept a 1000 people dying of covid 19 a week, the numbers who have died from other causes have also soared.
Because we only have so many Drs, nurses and hospital beds.

julieca · 27/11/2021 11:34

@RedToothBrush and I have pointed this out to you before along with quotes from those scientists that it was always about deaths from covid and indirect deaths through a lack of treatment.

MarshaBradyo · 27/11/2021 11:37

Listening today it feels a bit calmer

The general reaction is heightened by flights stopped etc

I did hear an industry representative say they wanted data to underpin flights being stopped, of course in waiting for that we might run into more trouble.

We don’t know much yet re severity and transmissibility so now it’s just wait and see

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