It seems like the U.K. may have a better Covid strategy after all

[Warhertisuff]

... at least since the emergence of Delta. I generally supported the restrictions before last summer, but thought that opening up in July was sensible. It's too early to tell
for sure, but at the moment it looks like the right call.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59378849

@Bellee11

That's because vulnerable have already died of it and most people have caught it. Our rates have been high for months, the fact that we are not seeing the peak Europe is is absolutely nothing to brag about when you compare our overall deaths.

Many of the most vulnerable have shielding or, since this ended, have been very careful since March 2020... The idea that there's no one left in the U.K. who's Clinically Extremely Vulnerable to Covid who's still living is preposterous.

@RedToothBrush, i can't take seriously data that only discusses England, not the UK

When the goal of success was never to save lives in the first place

I don't think we should be smug about having a better strategy. We reacted to events and in some instances we've done better than other countries, in other ways we have done worse. Only history will know which nations made the best choices and whether that was down to intelligent strategies or just luck.

Not read through the whole thread, but talking about the death rates in the UK since opening up in July, isn't it that hospitalised cases have been in the main the unvaccinated? Don't know if these cases make up a high percentage of Covid related deaths or not. Is there a breakdown somewhere of how many are vaccinated vulnerable/ unvaccinated vulnerable/ and unvaccinated with no known health issues?

I would like to think that the place we are in is by design rather than lucky fluke !

We hear that extending the time between covid jabs gives better protection - lucky because I feel they lengthened it to get as many people 1 jab as possible.
That we are protecting the older population by giving AZ vaccine due to possible increased T cell production , again we jabbed with what we had .
Then they say an early winter peak was a good idea . Maybe we will be better off overall but maybe there will be a mutation and we will get another peak ( don’t know if we are on4/5 or 6) although it’s never a goid idea to have deaths .

It feels to me as it it’s all a bit shambolic and we are getting a few lucky breaks .

Austria
Germany
England
Netherlands

Really???

We still have the highest death rate by far from what I understand? That's not a success in my opinion. The NHS is in the worst state it's ever been in since it was founded, and we have staff shortages in all key worker areas, especially in health and care. Just because we were allowed not to wear masks for longer doesn't not mean that our policy has worked, and the last thing this negligent government is an apology, they couldn't even provide PPE for people working on the frontline with Covid patients, they are hugely negligent and if I'd lost a close friend or family member because of the decisions they've made I'd be furious. People have short memories. Watch this and tell me they've done a good job....

[quote Chuck2015]We still have the highest death rate by far from what I understand? That's not a success in my opinion. The NHS is in the worst state it's ever been in since it was founded, and we have staff shortages in all key worker areas, especially in health and care. Just because we were allowed not to wear masks for longer doesn't not mean that our policy has worked, and the last thing this negligent government is an apology, they couldn't even provide PPE for people working on the frontline with Covid patients, they are hugely negligent and if I'd lost a close friend or family member because of the decisions they've made I'd be furious. People have short memories. Watch this and tell me they've done a good job....[/quote]
Not if you look at excess deaths

Italy Spain Portugal higher in Europe

Look at the source of the article - BBC.
The govt are desperate for the thousands and thousands of unnecessary deaths to be forgotten.

Deaths are recorded as a Covid statistic if someone had a positive test within the 28 days before their death. What isn't recorded is if they died from Covid, with Covid or had had Covid and it hadn't been a contribution towards their death...........

Hence I take all of the statistics with a massive pinch of salt.

@Crabapple04

Not read through the whole thread, but talking about the death rates in the UK since opening up in July, isn't it that hospitalised cases have been in the main the unvaccinated? Don't know if these cases make up a high percentage of Covid related deaths or not. Is there a breakdown somewhere of how many are vaccinated vulnerable/ unvaccinated vulnerable/ and unvaccinated with no known health issues?

I think I saw that 98% of pregnant women who ended up in ICU were unvaccinated off the top of my head.

Which is a pretty big %.

Pregnant women have also made up a sizeable % of patients ending up in hospital in the first place.

Of the overall deaths, those who were double jabbed and died had on average at least 6 (yes six) underlying health conditions.

I think those figures alone are ones that have stuck in my mind as being significant.

And yes the majority of those hospitalised have been unvaccinated in recent months.

It makes for sobering reading but very much reinforces the essential need to be vaccinated.

Quite simply if we had followed the same path as many European countries our hospitals would most likely be overwhelmed at this point. Our schools would be shutting and we would be going back into lockdown.

Frankly I don't care what they do in Europe. I do hope they manage to save as many lives as possible.

But I am pleased that we are not in the same position.

The UK has had so much flak over the last few months. And in the international press articles I have read it is abundantly clearly that the reasons the UK made the choices it did are being ignored.

The big issue in all that though is this all mean we are supposed to have a booster every 6 months ... because of 'waning immunity'

not keen on that one at all tbh.

@sashagabadon

Yep, I actually think if it carry’s on like this then some sections of the media and some scientists should eat humble pie and apologise to Whitty et al for all the hyperbole in the summer. Boris too deserves an apology.

Boris does not deserve an apology. He was responsible for vast numbers of deaths in the first two waves, and it’s only by chance that the “strategy” of do bugger all is just about holding now.

And we might reflect on the fact that the Delta variant is an Indian variation on Kent (whatever that was) and perhaps if we’d locked down hard and early it would never have arisen.

Yet more British exceptionalism which is really quite laughable.
I am not sure the situation will end up being better or worse but now anyone could suggest it was well managed and thought through is beyond me.

Even the much heralded vaccines ended up not being all that much ahead of Europe when you factored in time between 1 and 2nd shots

@merrygoround51

Yet more British exceptionalism which is really quite laughable. I am not sure the situation will end up being better or worse but now anyone could suggest it was well managed and thought through is beyond me.

Even the much heralded vaccines ended up not being all that much ahead of Europe when you factored in time between 1 and 2nd shots

Why?

Don’t you want to avoid a lockdown?

Personally I’ll be very relieved if we do.

@Ohsofedupwiththis, I tink you have two issues here.

Isd your aim to ensure that your hospitals can cope even though this means the high cost in lives? In that case, yes the UK had made the right chpice. It didnt get oberwhelmed in the summer, albeit it certainly is now but it came at a cost. Very high number of cases and deaths.

Or yur aim is reduce number of deaths at all costs, at all tme. In that case, ot seems that the rest of europe has made the right chpice so far.

Of course, you need to take into the account the state of your health service and the UK is atrocious. So many hospitals who are in black alert, ambulances waiting hours outside of A&E etc.... Clearly putting just a little bit more pressure onto the NHS would just it into collapse.

@RubyTuesday70

Deaths are recorded as a Covid statistic if someone had a positive test within the 28 days before their death. What isn't recorded is if they died from Covid, with Covid or had had Covid and it hadn't been a contribution towards their death...........

Hence I take all of the statistics with a massive pinch of salt.

The amount of people who have covid recorded in their death certificates is higher than those who died after a positive test. That si because there were a lot of elderly people who died of covid in care homes in the first wave who were never tested, but Drs recorded the cause of death as covid.

Lockdowns are to be avpided tbh. Especially in the UK.
Another lockdown will just cost too many lives, indirectly just because of the enormous waiting time, difficulty to access services etc...

We hear that extending the time between covid jabs gives better protection - lucky because I feel they lengthened it to get as many people 1 jab as possible.

It was also based on evidence for how other two part vaccines work and the optimum gap being longer rather than shorter.

The reason it was 4 weeks in the first place was simply because when they were trialling time was of the essence and they could get back results for a 4 week interval much quicker than a longer gap. They just didn't wait to see which was better in the rush for the vaccine.

The UK decided that the longer gap made sense because it meant we could partly vaccinate more people but also because there was a compelling scientific argument that it was more beneficial too. It was a gamble but an educated gamble.

It wasn't blind luck and a stab in the dark or rationing vaccines. It was a considered decision which seems to now be paying off.

The thing we didn't know at the time was how long vaccine effectiveness lasted. Thats the bit we've got lucky on in terms of timing.

But again its always been arguable that coming into winter there would need to be a top up in the most elderly because of what we know about the flu. Hence why the UK decided on a booster plan very early when there was only minimal data starting to come out of Israel. It was still very a very controversial decision at that point. I don't think it looks as controversial now...

Currently cases in the UK are going up. Deaths and hospitalisation s are not as they lag by 3-4 weeks. They reflect the lower cases we were having a few weeks ago. According to that trend, cases and hospitalisations will rise again in a few weeks time.

@PerfectlyUnsuitable

Lockdowns are to be avpided tbh. Especially in the UK. Another lockdown will just cost too many lives, indirectly just because of the enormous waiting time, difficulty to access services etc...

Plus huge hardship, mh hit and financial hit

I wonder if Austria has reintroduced a furlough type scheme

I just wish the governments reporting of COVID deaths wasn’t so skewed! Deaths recorded within 28 days of a positive result do not mean that person died of COVID!! it’s so frustrating that these pompous twits in charge can’t see that or perhaps they just don’t care?!

Those who died of covid is higher than the figure who had a positive test as I said above.