Vaccine for 5+

[NotTheBaby]

It’s on sky news now. Leaked document stating 5 year olds and above to be vaccinated from spring. I’m so hesitant to get my children done, when I couldn’t wait for mine. Why is this so much harder than it should be? Or am I just overthinking it?

So what if vaccination produces a less good immune response and puts kids at greater risk as adults? This is possible, as we just don’t know. This is why vaccinating the entire population of healthy UK children with new drugs for a disease they are at low risk of is a very bad idea.

@Hotcoffee10

So what if vaccination produces a less good immune response and puts kids at greater risk as adults? This is possible, as we just don’t know. This is why vaccinating the entire population of healthy UK children with new drugs for a disease they are at low risk of is a very bad idea.

That argument doesn't make sense

Have explained to you before on last child vaccine thread that it is not a binary either you get immunity from vaccination or infection scenario.

Vaccinated children will have their immunity bolstered by subsequent exposure or infection

Vaccines are not drugs - important distinction

This is why vaccinating the entire population of healthy UK children with new drugs for a disease they are at low risk of is a very bad idea.

Why on earth are you making such a definitive statement with no expertise in this area?

As i have said already, there will be more evidence come Spring, and the JCVI/MHRA will evaluate. Making such categorical statements based on your websearches is silly.

@NotKnowingArseFromElbow...

Sorry but that just isn't true - you literally cannot link the autoimmune disease to the vaccine. The consultant can "think" it is related and report it. But no-one knows that it is linked.

Thank you, I shall pass your visdom on to my friend, I'm sure she'll place it above their paediatric consultant's.

[quote scottishtablet23]@NotKnowingArseFromElbow...

Sorry but that just isn't true - you literally cannot link the autoimmune disease to the vaccine. The consultant can "think" it is related and report it. But no-one knows that it is linked.

Thank you, I shall pass your visdom on to my friend, I'm sure she'll place it above their paediatric consultant's.[/quote]
I am also interested to know what this "aggressive autoimmune disease" that you are reporting in 30 children actually is @scottishtablet23?

So the health service that doesn’t bother to offer chicken pox vaccines to kids & hpv vaccines to adults because of the cost to disease risk ratio will roll out the covid-19 vaccination despite it being worse? Someone in the Tory party is definitely making a lot of the covid vaccine.

@Ozanj

So the health service that doesn’t bother to offer chicken pox vaccines to kids & hpv vaccines to adults because of the cost to disease risk ratio will roll out the covid-19 vaccination despite it being worse? Someone in the Tory party is definitely making a lot of the covid vaccine.

Hasn't been offered yet, may very well not be....

@scottishtablet23

Thank you, I shall pass your visdom on to my friend, I'm sure she'll place it above their paediatric consultant's.

A pediatric consultant isn't God. It's a normal person with a medical degree. It very sweet and endearing that you hold their opinion as gospel. However, their expertise lie in children's health not vaccines. So either they aren't informed enough to know that they can't say that this autoimmune disease is caused by the vaccine. Even paediatric consultant's aren't infallible. I find this unlikely but not impossible. More likely that you're friend misunderstood what was said. This autoimmune disease may have occurred after the vaccine, however, anyone with two brain cells can tell you that this does NOT mean it was CAUSED by the vaccine.

@Hotcoffee10

So what if vaccination produces a less good immune response and puts kids at greater risk as adults? This is possible, as we just don’t know. This is why vaccinating the entire population of healthy UK children with new drugs for a disease they are at low risk of is a very bad idea.

We know a couple of things:

First, that the immune response from children to the smaller paediatric dose in the Pfizer trials was at least as strong as seen in adults.

Second, that there are plenty of vaccines that require adult boosters (that often aren’t a huge issue because the diseases aren’t circulating widely thanks to, er, vaccinations).

Third, that in ten to twenty years we will know a lot more about Covid than we do now and will have some damn sight better options available to us.

Fourth, even a low immune response would be greater than none at all in adulthood.

@ollyollyoxenfree

Where did I say that 30 children had the same autoimmune reaction?!?! They've seen nearly 30 children with similar symptoms to his. His condition is specific to him, however, they're seeing an increasing number of children with symptoms such as heart palpitations, body shakes, one sided numbness. Unfortunately, for our friend, their issues didn't stop here but went way beyond.

Point being, there is just no way of knowing what lays dormant in one's body and is then triggered by a type of vaccine which none of us ever had before. Once the needle is in there's no way back. Covid, however, may never find you.

No. No chance.
I'm still suffering side effects from the two jabs - over 6 months on. I'm not risking my kids going through the same.

[quote scottishtablet23]@ollyollyoxenfree

Where did I say that 30 children had the same autoimmune reaction?!?! They've seen nearly 30 children with similar symptoms to his. His condition is specific to him, however, they're seeing an increasing number of children with symptoms such as heart palpitations, body shakes, one sided numbness. Unfortunately, for our friend, their issues didn't stop here but went way beyond.

Point being, there is just no way of knowing what lays dormant in one's body and is then triggered by a type of vaccine which none of us ever had before. Once the needle is in there's no way back. Covid, however, may never find you.[/quote]
This was your original post @scottishtablet23?

His symptoms were so severe that he had an urgent referral to GOSH (great ormond st) where he was diagnosed with an aggressive autoimmune condition triggered by the covid vaccine as explained by his consultant. Apparently, just in this last month, since the roll-out of vaccinating 12-15 yrs old, they've already seen nearly 30 children with symptoms similar to his after being jabbed

When you said similar symptoms you'd assume it was the same autoimmune disease?

What was the autoimmune disease though? This is something I've been following closely and haven't heard of anything linked specifically to vaccination, although there have been reports after infection (not proven to be causal).

increasing number of children with symptoms such as heart palpitations, body shakes, one sided numbness.
But again, why the assumption this is due to an autoimmune disease?

Covid, however, may never find you.

Although that seems unlikely; based on modelling from ONS and others I’ve seen they put the current likelihood of contracting Covid if unvaccinated at around 25% a year, which dropped below 10% for the double vaccinated. I’ll try to find it.

I’m sad that there are children in hospital with covid. The fact is that children are unlikely to die from covid and most of those children in hospital are obese.
We need to tackle underlying health, that includes looking at vitamin d levels.
Children shouldn’t have to have a vaccine if they’re healthy.

@ollyollyoxenfree
clearly you have too much time on your hands. I, on the other hand, have very little patience and time for those who put this much effort into doubting others.

I do hope, however, that you have the same attitude when analysing data put before you by the government.
What I'd like to know is that if the tendency for serious side effects is this high, why don't we all know about it? The key word here being tendency/trend, which I presume, these paediatric docs probably haven't seen before now. It's not difficult for them to notice changes in such a short amount of time, since they've only begun vaccinating this age group a few weeks ago.

[quote scottishtablet23]@ollyollyoxenfree
clearly you have too much time on your hands. I, on the other hand, have very little patience and time for those who put this much effort into doubting others.

I do hope, however, that you have the same attitude when analysing data put before you by the government.
What I'd like to know is that if the tendency for serious side effects is this high, why don't we all know about it? The key word here being tendency/trend, which I presume, these paediatric docs probably haven't seen before now. It's not difficult for them to notice changes in such a short amount of time, since they've only begun vaccinating this age group a few weeks ago.[/quote]
I don't understand your reply.

I am not questioning your story, I am simply asking, what was this agressive autoimmune disease?

As in the name? Was it lupus/T2TM/rhemtoid arthritis etc etc?

Autoimmunity isn't a generlised phenomeon, which is why I am asking, as I have a lot of interest in this area.

[quote scottishtablet23]@ollyollyoxenfree

Where did I say that 30 children had the same autoimmune reaction?!?! They've seen nearly 30 children with similar symptoms to his. His condition is specific to him, however, they're seeing an increasing number of children with symptoms such as heart palpitations, body shakes, one sided numbness. Unfortunately, for our friend, their issues didn't stop here but went way beyond.

Point being, there is just no way of knowing what lays dormant in one's body and is then triggered by a type of vaccine which none of us ever had before. Once the needle is in there's no way back. Covid, however, may never find you.[/quote]
I had the same symptoms. A research professor from Liverpool was given by yellow card and suggested as I already produced a high number of autoimmune antibodies (anti-thyroid) this was a reaction of my immune system rather than the vaccine itself. This is why for the children impacted they are searching for autoimmune illnesses - nobody believes for a second that the vaccine caused anything.

@DayKay in general there should be a lot more effort and money put into educating the whole country about obtaining and maintaining a healthy weight and the importance of Vitamin D levels. These two factors have long been shown to be directly linked to the severity of covid.

Having said that, there are those of us also who are just simply more susceptible to a negative outcome be it the illness itself or the jab against it. PIMS, for instance (amongst children who had covid) is also not something I'd wish upon any parent.

@Gingerlovesbiscuits

Thousands of children a month are currently being hospitalised a month in the UK with Covid so yes my children will be having the vaccine as soon as possible. The incidence of issues like myocarditis is still higher after Covid than after vaccination and I don’t want to risk them having long covid. The vaccine is already being rolled out in the US and Canada. I just wish we didn’t have to wait until spring.

This is misinformation. There are not thousands of children a month being hospitalised from covid.

@DayKay have you got anything that shows the data for that?

[quote NotKnowingArseFromElbow]@scottishtablet23

Thank you, I shall pass your visdom on to my friend, I'm sure she'll place it above their paediatric consultant's.

A pediatric consultant isn't God. It's a normal person with a medical degree. It very sweet and endearing that you hold their opinion as gospel. However, their expertise lie in children's health not vaccines. So either they aren't informed enough to know that they can't say that this autoimmune disease is caused by the vaccine. Even paediatric consultant's aren't infallible. I find this unlikely but not impossible. More likely that you're friend misunderstood what was said. This autoimmune disease may have occurred after the vaccine, however, anyone with two brain cells can tell you that this does NOT mean it was CAUSED by the vaccine. [/quote]
Username is fitting

[quote NotKnowingArseFromElbow]@scottishtablet23

Thank you, I shall pass your visdom on to my friend, I'm sure she'll place it above their paediatric consultant's.

A pediatric consultant isn't God. It's a normal person with a medical degree. It very sweet and endearing that you hold their opinion as gospel. However, their expertise lie in children's health not vaccines. So either they aren't informed enough to know that they can't say that this autoimmune disease is caused by the vaccine. Even paediatric consultant's aren't infallible. I find this unlikely but not impossible. More likely that you're friend misunderstood what was said. This autoimmune disease may have occurred after the vaccine, however, anyone with two brain cells can tell you that this does NOT mean it was CAUSED by the vaccine. [/quote]
as I said before, thank you for your contribution, you shouldn't have bothered to respond, but REALLY shouldn't have.

Children shouldn’t have to have a vaccine if they’re healthy.

Does that apply to all vaccines or just this one?

@ollyollyoxenfree

*I am not questioning your story, I am simply asking, what was this agressive autoimmune disease?

As in the name? Was it lupus/T2TM/rhemtoid arthritis etc etc?*

I feel rather awkward going into such details about other people's health conditions on an open platform like MN, especially as the condition itself bears no relevance to the opening post. I've already name changed for my original message. I would, however, be happy to send you a private message.

[quote scottishtablet23]@ollyollyoxenfree

*I am not questioning your story, I am simply asking, what was this agressive autoimmune disease?

As in the name? Was it lupus/T2TM/rhemtoid arthritis etc etc?*

I feel rather awkward going into such details about other people's health conditions on an open platform like MN, especially as the condition itself bears no relevance to the opening post. I've already name changed for my original message. I would, however, be happy to send you a private message.[/quote]
If you're happy to PM me then that would be really useful thanks