Vaccine for 5+

[NotTheBaby]

It’s on sky news now. Leaked document stating 5 year olds and above to be vaccinated from spring. I’m so hesitant to get my children done, when I couldn’t wait for mine. Why is this so much harder than it should be? Or am I just overthinking it?

@ILookAtTheFloor

This is chilling news.

I'm bit surprised that this 'nudge' is starting now, buttering us up for the new year.

I'm fully vaxxed and boostered but I won't be consenting to my children being vaxxed.

Chilling news??? Really??? What a ridiculous hyperbole.

Chilling news is the 'bedsit' murderer who was abusing dead bodies on a regular basis, including dead children.

Chilling news is the female tennis player that spoke about abuse and is now missing.

Chilling news is not the potential approval of an optional vaccine that could be offered to you FFS.

My 8yo is desperate to get his, so he can protect his brother and Nan. I've always said that the final decision would be his. He understands that I've had my 3 jabs to protect the same people and he wants his.
Mind he has seen his brother very poorly from a bog standard cold

@scottishtablet23

I was already in two minds about vaccinating my DC, until my friend's teenage son ended up in hospital within a week of taking the jab. His symptoms were so severe that he had an urgent referral to GOSH (great ormond st) where he was diagnosed with an aggressive autoimmune condition triggered by the covid vaccine as explained by his consultant. Apparently, just in this last month, since the roll-out of vaccinating 12-15 yrs old, they've already seen nearly 30 children with symptoms similar to his after being jabbed. And this is only one hospital in the UK!!! I'd sooner base my decision on real facts like this than govt statistics coming out in the media.

Sorry but that just isn't true - you literally cannot link the autoimmune disease to the vaccine. The consultant can "think" it is related and report it. But no-one knows that it is linked.

Insanity, imo.

www.thecardiologyadvisor.com/home/topics/acs/acute-coronary-syndrome-acs-biomarkers-mrna-covid19-vaccine/

Less than 20 kids in England sadly died, all of whom had existing health issues. We would kill more kids then save. Europe by example has numerous countries suspending Moderna for under 30s for heart issues and yet we have readily available unbiased information concluding the dangers.

Lab guy:
mobile.twitter.com/ToriaMart/status/1459675860458524677

Ex head of Pfizer:
mobile.twitter.com/VigilantFox/status/1458775492270727169

Scary!!

@HomerSimpleton

Insanity, imo.

www.thecardiologyadvisor.com/home/topics/acs/acute-coronary-syndrome-acs-biomarkers-mrna-covid19-vaccine/

Less than 20 kids in England sadly died, all of whom had existing health issues. We would kill more kids then save. Europe by example has numerous countries suspending Moderna for under 30s for heart issues and yet we have readily available unbiased information concluding the dangers.

Lab guy:
mobile.twitter.com/ToriaMart/status/1459675860458524677

Ex head of Pfizer:
mobile.twitter.com/VigilantFox/status/1458775492270727169

Scary!!

No, quoting Mike Yeadon as a voice of reason, is what is insanity.

Claims he has made
-everyone who has been vaccinated will be dead in two years
-the vaccine was not made to protect anyone from COVID, it was designed to kill people
-worldwide, governments, are using this to cause "mass depopulation"
-simultaneously, the vaccines are also being used to track people and create a "mass database"- although won't be much use if we're all dead

You are very far down the rabbit hole @HomerSimpleton , but would suggest to read up on your sources a little more.

Less than 20 kids in England sadly died, all of whom had existing health issues. We would kill more kids then save. Europe by example has numerous countries suspending Moderna for under 30s for heart issues and yet we have readily available unbiased information concluding the dangers.

And @HomerSimpleton - this is false. Again quoted by Mike Yeadon so guessing you're getting all your info from odessee/bitchute/telegram, which happily propogates his misinformation?

There have been children without pre-existing conditions who have died of COVID, and there are several who have died whilst having underlying conditions that are common not serious. You are also ignoring the fact that death is not the only adverse outcome of COVID infection.

Not saying this vaccine will be offered to this age group, nor that I'd take up the offer if it was, but how does all this misinformation help anyone make an informed choice?

I know this is amazing news some some of my friends with vulnerable kids, they will quite rightly be hammering at the GPS for the first doses. But I just don't know. DS has a complicated heart, he's in o2. It's hard to know which is the bigger risk - covid which so far we've avoided (and DH and I are now boosted) or side effects fro mtge jab

I think it's crazy and we will look back on vaccinating children against covid with horror in the future.

The justification isn't there, apart from for vulnerable children.

I imagine the take up will be low, and the majority of primary school children will have already had covid.

Predictable responses on the thread!

Really wish the gov/media would stop with this "leaked" document business, all it does is feed vaccine suspicion and conspiracy theories, as heavily evidenced on the thread (why oh why are people still quoting charlatan Mike Yeadon)

They are considering offering vaccination to this age group. You child may or may not be offered it. You can say no if you don't think it's something you want to take up.

The JCVI advised against vaccination of 12-15 year olds, the CMOs used further evidence to offer it to this age group, with the caveat that it's not a clear cut decision, and families should decide if they want to go ahead. A similar scenario will likely occur, depend on data, when they evaluate it for younger kids.

Why debate now when there will be far more evidence come Spring evaluating the benefits/risks.

And as ever, misinformation will help no-one make an informed decision re: vaccination, so it's good to avoid sharing it ;)

Who else thinks Covid vaccines for age 1-5 years are soon to follow -- and be mandatory in some situations, like from some USA day care providers?

@ragged

Who else thinks Covid vaccines for age 1-5 years are soon to follow -- and be mandatory in some situations, like from some USA day care providers?

The trials for young children and infants are still in progress, I think.

The JCVI advised against vaccination of 12-15 year olds, the CMOs used further evidence to offer it to this age group, with the caveat that it's not a clear cut decision, and families should decide if they want to go ahead. A similar scenario will likely occur, depend on data, when they evaluate it for younger kids.

At the risk of being the world’s most pedantic arsehole (olly you know that my ‘pedantic arsehole’ credentials are well established!), the JCVI didn’t quite advise against it, and certainly not on an individual basis rather than the net impact of a universal programme. They then gave a hospital pass to the CMOs.

Can't wait for 8yo DS to be able to get the vaccine, and neither can he. Yes, many kids don't suffer much illness from covid, but it has become one of the top causes of death for kids in the US (I haven't seen UK figures). As such it seems a no brainer to me to vaccinate kids and prevent further child deaths. By next spring there will be loads of data, so if you're worried, wait and read reputable sources of which there will be much more availabile between now and spring.

Personally, my DS and I will be there like a shot (pun intended) as soon as its opened up for his age group, l same as his older siblings did. If we could get it now, we would. (I have even considered whether it would be feasible to get the jab abroad for him, so he can get it sooner)

Kids are also a reservoir for virus, increasing exposure for older or more vulnerable sectors of the population, and allowing a vehicle for mutations. Why would anyone consider this a good situation if there was an alternative?

As a bonus, there is a suggestion that the risk of vaccine induced myocarditis in this age group is much lower as there is potentially a link between this and high testosterone levels (as seen in puberty). This might explain why young males (late teen, early 20s) seem to be more at risk of that complication.

@JassyRadlett

The JCVI advised against vaccination of 12-15 year olds, the CMOs used further evidence to offer it to this age group, with the caveat that it's not a clear cut decision, and families should decide if they want to go ahead. A similar scenario will likely occur, depend on data, when they evaluate it for younger kids.

At the risk of being the world’s most pedantic arsehole (olly you know that my ‘pedantic arsehole’ credentials are well established!), the JCVI didn’t quite advise against it, and certainly not on an individual basis rather than the net impact of a universal programme. They then gave a hospital pass to the CMOs.

Yes I was debating whether to bother typing it all out and good to be pulled up on :)

Agree that summarising it to that extent is misleading

They agreed that there wasn't enough evidence to recommend it this age group, based on direct medical benefits (despite being heavily influenced by Dingwall & his misinformation and apparently including non-medical factors to argue against vaccination)

The CMOs look at non-direct medical benefits & wider impacts, to kids themselves, and concluding there was enough evidence to recommend to this group

Wonderful news. Very happy about this. Gutted it's not till next year.

@firef1y

My 8yo is desperate to get his, so he can protect his brother and Nan. I've always said that the final decision would be his. He understands that I've had my 3 jabs to protect the same people and he wants his. Mind he has seen his brother very poorly from a bog standard cold

I actually find it awfully sad that 8 year olds are carrying that weight of responsibility on their shoulders- being asked to make decisions that they can't possibly understand so choose based on guilt alone. My high school dd was allowed to make her own choice, I'll be taking responsibility for deciding for my 8 year old

@NotMrsTumble
Is this true? That covid is a leading cause of death in children in the US?
Very surprising.
It still must be much lower than :
Road accidents
Killed by parent
Guns

Worldwide malaria and diarrhoea are leading causes of death in children.

From Nature
"The studies found that COVID-19 caused 25 deaths in that age group between March 2020 and February 2021."
Child deaths from covid very rare in UK.

If my 10 year old could be vaccinated tomorrow we'd be ready and waiting. My 15 year old has had 2 doses of Pfizer because of my health.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=XsVLbb0Z6Do
You would be mad to consider giving your healthy children this vaccine.

@Hotcoffee10

m.youtube.com/watch?v=XsVLbb0Z6Do You would be mad to consider giving your healthy children this vaccine.

I think dismissing anyone as "mad" when we have far from a clear picture regarding vaccination of the age group, and the impact of COVID on this age group.

Vaccines are by their definition, given to healthy people to prevent or minimise disease.

Haven't watched the full video but disagree with the argument about vaccines against RNA based viruses being useless due to the high mutation rate (and therefore reinfection risk)

Vaccination allows children to experience their first COVID infection with some degree of immunity already, protecting against acute illness and long term effects.

It is likely that this "first hit" of coronavirus (and whether you experience it via vaccination or infection) that is likely to be the most important one.

The vaccine provides neither long term protection no sterilising immunity in older age groups. It comes with rare but significant risks. The Pfizer trial of the vaccine had less than 4000 children and ran for 6 months the end point was not hospitalisation or even symptomatic disease but antibody levels. When the FDA licensed it for 5+ in US they admitted the trial was underpowered to look at adverse events. Majority of children in the UK will have been exposed to covid already, mostly uneventfully. The risks of covid are very low for this age group. We should wait until we have decent long term data in adults before we even contemplate vaccinating kids.

@ollyollyoxenfree“Vaccination allows children to experience their first hit of coronavirus infection with some degree of immunity, protecting against long term effects”
We have literally no idea what vaccination does to long term immune response against coronaviruses since there are no long term studies. It may strengthen it which would be nice but some evidence suggests vaccination produces less broad, specific and lasting protection than natural infection. That’s why best to get more proper data before we even consider vaccinating low risk kids.

it has become one of the top causes of death for kids in the US

“One of the top causes” is a fairly woolly statement. What constitutes one of the top?

I could find this quote from an article in the LA Times last month:

“COVID-19 has become one of the leading causes of death in children nationwide.
“There were 66 COVID-related deaths among children ages 5 to 11 in the yearlong period that ended Oct. 2, according to data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, making COVID-19 the eighth-leading cause of death in that age group.”

Whether 8th constitutes a leading cause is neither here nor there really, once you have the actual number. But for context, the leading cause of death in children in America is accidental, and that is 12,000 a year (aged 1-19). Not that that’s any comfort to those 66 families of course, but “one of the top causes of death amongst kids” is a fairly meaningless phrase without any context at all.

[quote Hotcoffee10]@ollyollyoxenfree“Vaccination allows children to experience their first hit of coronavirus infection with some degree of immunity, protecting against long term effects”
We have literally no idea what vaccination does to long term immune response against coronaviruses since there are no long term studies. It may strengthen it which would be nice but some evidence suggests vaccination produces less broad, specific and lasting protection than natural infection. That’s why best to get more proper data before we even consider vaccinating low risk kids.[/quote]
I don't think you understand my point.

I am not speculating about long term protection of vaccination (indeed I was explainign why I don't think this is an argument against vaccination)

Also nice cropping of my post to try and mislead @Hotcoffee10

Here's the full sentence

Vaccination allows children to experience their first COVID infection with some degree of immunity already, protecting against acute illness and long term effects.