Why are things ' kicking off ' in Europe ?

[genuinequestion21]

Please excuse my ignorance. But why is Germany for example stressing so much about covid right now ?

I think we have more cases per 100 k than them and have been having high cases for months and we are still open and not ' that much ' talk about lockdown etc. It seems we are kind of just about ' OK '. Well at least we aren't going to plan B yet.

However in Germany there have been few cases and cases are now exploding and there's talk of lock downs etc.

Hospitals also seem to be full again. Whereas in the UK, they don't seem to be on the brink.

Why these differences ? Germany and UK have a very similar proportion of the population vaccinated. Is it because cases are seeming to go up very rapidly, whereas ours have been high but flat for ages ?

Why are their hospitals full again and ours are not ?

Please correct any factual information which is incorrect.

If you look at the data for Germany and surrounding countries, they all seem to be following a similar trachectory, with a sudden increase in cases and deaths.
We had a new peak in July and then cases and deaths have remained relatively high but stable, since then, with small peaks and troughs.
Another thing to consider is that the number of serious/critical cases in the UK is around 900ish whilst in Germany it is three times that amount, unfortunately I can't work out exactly what is included in serious/critical but the UK figures tally with patients in MV beds I think ?
One of the most effected regions is Bavaria where Oktoberfest is huge, could some of it be related to that ?

it is just spin,
the government/media are putting a spin on it.
they need us to spend spend spend

some of us see through this, but not all

Hospitals are full here, well in Scotland anyway. People are in A&E for days waiting for a bed on a ward and I know of 3 hospitals which have had to close their doors completely for periods because they simply don’t have room to let anyone else in. Ambulances have been sent elsewhere.

I’m not saying you specifically OP, but a lot of people seem to have adopted the opinion that Covid isn’t a thing anymore. Just because we’ve been out living life ‘normally’ for a few months, people seem to be forgetting there are still a lot of vulnerable (and unvaccinated 🙄) people getting very unwell.

How does the current 200 deaths a day compare with the peak last year? I’m assuming April/May type time?

Germany’s double vaccination rate of 67 percent is lower than our 80 percent. They only just started their booster programme. And apparently some German regions have a really low rate. Saxony is under 60 per cent and there’s a big spike there. I was speaking to a German friend and she told me there is still a lot of vaccine hesitancy around. Her own doctor told her not to get her teen kids vaccinated until there is more data.

Looking at the charts, the UK do way more tests than most other countries, so we’re picking up more of our cases than they are. That could make us look relatively worse than we really are, which could then reflect in hospital admissions and deaths.

In the UK most vulnerable people (over 50s etc) took the vaccine and are queueing up for the boosters. As a result the majority of current cases are in the young who are less likely to get seriously ill and be hospitalised.

In Germany many vulnerable people refused the vaccine. So there are a lot of current cases among older people who are getting very seriously ill.

How does the current 200 deaths a day compare with the peak last year? I’m assuming April/May type time?

The peak here in the UK last year was much earlier, do you remember Christmas being cancelled ? April and May were actually amongst the lowest months for deaths, some days in single figures. During the peak it was over a thousand. Of course that was before the vaccination programme was rolled out.

This has been a really interesting read. Thanks for the thread, OP.

Forgot to say, the death figures at this time last year were over double what they currently are in the UK, again this was before the vaccine roll out.

This is what I thought.. but Boris said that we need to be concerned that the European wave will wash up on our shooed. I was under the impression we were ' reasonably ' stable.. and would remain so, as we've got so many people who've had it

Gosh surely not lies from Boris... The government took a decision to let it run through the population to prioritise the economy and just insist that the vaccine would save us and the hospitals could cope.

Our rates are also very high. Hospitals are maxed out. CEV people have been abandoned and stripped of all support and protections.
A high level of vaccination helps massively but the claim that its all over, back to normal doesn't mean it has stopped spreading.

Most of Europe is worried that this wave which we are cheerfully ignoring is a new variant. It is very striking to me that despite double vaccination and maintaining a very carefully operated office environment we are seeing people fall ill every week and they are falling very ill, although most of them are avoiding hospital.

This is young, healthy vaccinated people, we have had two recently on oxygen therapy and many off work for at least 2-3 weeks with the slow recovery associated with a really bad bout of flu or bronchial infection. That has been having a bigger impact on the business than people all WFH.

I don't know if its the delta variant but that when that was widespread we have people falling ill but not to the same severity.

@mumboss1984

They are concerned as only 67% of their population have been vaccinated and they don’t believe this is enough. I heard it being discussed on the radio last week.

Not specific to the original question, but it is my understanding that in general, you need at least 85% of the population to be vaccinated for the vaccination process to be effective. I am not a scientist/specialist, though, so am open to correction.

@sjxoxo how did you all feel in France back in April when you had high cases and we’d been in lockdown for months and had very low cases? Did you think we were all so irresponsible then? France didn’t even lockdown early this year despite high cases. Also your rules on indoor mixing were far less strict.

This isn’t a competition and I don’t think the U.K. has got many things right! But I don’t look at many other countries and think they’ve solved it (apart from Sweden but I know that’s controversial) either. This virus does what it does. Vaccinations have the biggest impact. Not masks. See Germany, Wales, Scotland.

Does everyone look at horror now at Germany abs Austria? No. Because we’ve all been there at different stages. France has too.

@sjxoxo Scotland is part of the UK.
It is law to wear a facemask mask here indoors, including schools.
We also have vaccine passports.
I think Wales also has these rules so what you are talking about is not UK wide.
And we still have high case numbers and struggling hospitals

@Frazzled2207
199 deaths were reported today. I don’t think we’re ok at all.There’s just a collective decision not to do anything about it other than half heartedly offer boosters and hope for the best.

This is basically it. However, realistically, I’m not sure what else there is to do. Covid’s been with us for two years now. (UK and others only started paying attention in Feb 2020 but it was almost certainly around December 2019). Obviously the elderly and vulnerable should take extra precautions but the rest of us just need to get on with things - as long as the NHS doesn’t get too overwhelmed. That said, the British government’s response in the first six months or so was diabolical and BJ is an absolutely awful excuse for a leader.

Uks policies are evidentially unsound and unethical. Other countries don’t have a Boris at the helm who is ok with blood in his hands.

Yes that is right re: Wales plus there are rumblings about extending passports to restaurants and pubs which I think will happen here.

People seem to forget that the UK is made up of four nations!

This is what I thought.. but Boris said that we need to be concerned that the European wave will wash up on our shooed. I was under the impression we were ' reasonably ' stable.. and would remain so, as we've got so many people who've had it

Gosh surely not lies from Boris... The government took a decision to let it run through the population to prioritise the economy and just insist that the vaccine would save us and the hospitals could cope.

What’s the first name terms thing the British have with this narcissistic fraud? Is he really held in such affection by the British people, father of the nation type of thing? Even after the lies of Brexit, disastrous early Covid response, not to mention his general deceit and narcissism? Seems he’s a clever manipulator, I’ll give him that!

Sorry I meant to quote ecceromani's post.

He is Johnson in this house! We are not his pals.

In Germany the overall percentage vaccinated hides dramatic regional variations. More 12+ children are vaccinated too meaning they have more unvaccinated adults. Clustered anti vax sentiment etc. Cases in Britain are predominately in children or those connected to children and our incidence of hospitalisation is lower plus we are testing far more asymptomatically so it's considered our rates in the U.K. cannot be directly compared

Yes it’s the vaccination rate. The vaccinated are much less likely to end up in hospital and die. They don’t have enough people vaccinated so they need to protect the population another way.

Here we are over ninety percent vaccinated and boosters being rolled out.

@PingleO

My friend is a senior nurse in children's A&E - she says things are looking dreadful at the moment. Staff are on their knees from the pressure and mounting workload. Hospitals are filling up. People are unable to access GPs, so are using A&E for minor issues. Ambulance wait times are through the roof.

Schools are also struggling. Staff shortages. Supply teacher shortages. Illness spreading rapidly through staff and children. Some schools have moved back to bubbles. Many are asking children of close family contacts to not attend, to try to reduce the spread. Some have had to close classes.

Case numbers are rising. Deaths from covid are at around 200 a day: over 1000 a week.

Our prime minister happily walks around a hospital without a mask on 🤦‍♀️.

Just because the media aren't reporting on the dire situation, it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

It's pretty scary.

Delta.

Sorry, I read it was a combination of the Delta variant and vaccines waning just as Delta hit.