Why are things ' kicking off ' in Europe ?

[genuinequestion21]

Please excuse my ignorance. But why is Germany for example stressing so much about covid right now ?

I think we have more cases per 100 k than them and have been having high cases for months and we are still open and not ' that much ' talk about lockdown etc. It seems we are kind of just about ' OK '. Well at least we aren't going to plan B yet.

However in Germany there have been few cases and cases are now exploding and there's talk of lock downs etc.

Hospitals also seem to be full again. Whereas in the UK, they don't seem to be on the brink.

Why these differences ? Germany and UK have a very similar proportion of the population vaccinated. Is it because cases are seeming to go up very rapidly, whereas ours have been high but flat for ages ?

Why are their hospitals full again and ours are not ?

Please correct any factual information which is incorrect.

I am surprised at the testing stats. I have friends and family in Germany and they seem to be constantly having to test children (lft), including primary school children, several times a week! And they have to test to get into venues too!

I have also heard that the low vaccine uptake in certain regions is a problem.

Mix of things as already said

Although similar overall vaccination rates theirs includes more children and differs regionally and some areas the health system is under massive pressure from low vaccination rates

They are partly seeing the surge that we have seen

I think they have more of the new variant

But also importantly I think they are behind us on the vaccine curve. Ie they are at the stage of waning vaccine without starting booster campaign so more reason to panic

Although I agree we should be doing more and worrying more.. not really just over covid but also the whole backlog + vaccine prog + pending flu pressures. But that’s Boris and co for you

Oh and yes less testing so their figure are higher than they seem

@Warhertisuff

Perhaps because they didn't open up like we did in July, and we have far higher levels of natural immunity built up over the summer and early autumn. Maybe our strategy is paying off!

Those seriously ill, those with long Covid and the 16,000 dead because of this strategy may disagree

@sleepwouldbenice

Oh and yes less testing so their figure are higher than they seem

Our testing figures have always been skewed to look higher thanks to works beating counting of the test upon being sent and upon result being given. We also count every lft and PCR individually whereas some countries count one person one positive.

@stayathomer

Am in Ireland (also kicking off but absolute head in the sand by most and government afraid to rock the boat so no longer even reminding people to sd etc) and personally I can't believe the uk are so relaxed about covid!!

Im in Ireland also but had to travel to Northern Ireland twice in the past two weeks for business and found the difference in behaviour quite shocking, very little mask wearing, an office of 11 people with one wearing a mask, people shaking hands (when I arrived two strangers I had business with attempted to shake my hand), social distancing doesn't appear important either, I have friends there who own a service station and large shop, they said its been a nightmare trying to make sure customers wore masks and sanitised their hands even at the height of the pandemic. I was so uncomfortable that I cancelled a meeting there for next week. Such different attitude just a few miles away.

@greystripedpajamas

My hospital is struggling, has been all year - but not due to covid at all really. We've got 1 covid ward which ebbs and flows but the rest of the hospital is dealing with the fallout of the pandemic / lockdowns / waiting lists etc.

Same here although we have no covid ward as we're a "covid light" hospital and are taking on patients from multiple health boards to work through waiting lists. Our patients are getting sicker and sicker as they've waited so long for treatment. They're staying in hospital longer too causing more cancellations and delays as there's no beds.

I don’t think it’s a case of we’re testing more and they have actually have tons more cases than us, if so they are managing to save a whole lot more people from dying than us. Our daily deaths/1 million people over the last 7 days are pretty much dead even if you look over on Worldometers.

@AlecTrevelyan006

Pretty much every European country has at some point been the most successful and the least successful at dealing with Covid.

Virus gonna virus

This...

There's no "best", this is not the Olympics where you get a gold medal. There's "doing ok at the moment" and sometimes there's "oh fuck"

@Warhertisuff

Perhaps because they didn't open up like we did in July, and we have far higher levels of natural immunity built up over the summer and early autumn. Maybe our strategy is paying off!

It really pains me to say this, but maybe our strategy was right.

Our hospitals are full again op. The nhs is on it's knees. A friend who works in a major london hospital tells me its a nightmare at the moment.

Staff stressed and fatigued from the last 2 years.
Beds full.
People leaving because of Brexit & not being replaced.
Winter breaking.
The tories are dismantling our nhs before our very eyes.

My friend is a senior nurse in children's A&E - she says things are looking dreadful at the moment. Staff are on their knees from the pressure and mounting workload. Hospitals are filling up. People are unable to access GPs, so are using A&E for minor issues. Ambulance wait times are through the roof.

Schools are also struggling. Staff shortages. Supply teacher shortages. Illness spreading rapidly through staff and children. Some schools have moved back to bubbles. Many are asking children of close family contacts to not attend, to try to reduce the spread. Some have had to close classes.

Case numbers are rising. Deaths from covid are at around 200 a day: over 1000 a week.

Our prime minister happily walks around a hospital without a mask on 🤦‍♀️.

Just because the media aren't reporting on the dire situation, it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

www.itv.com/news/anglia/2021-11-17/visiting-restrictions-at-peterborough-city-hospital-and-hinchingbrooke

Not sure we are doing so well, or that Johnson is in any position to point the finger. He's just trying to make himself look good by lying once again. Our hospitals are struggling.

Things are conveniently "kicking off" in Germany because they need reason to justify the measures they are bringing in and to try and win back public support.

I've got family living there and they have posted videos of protests that we don't see because the mainstream media don't want us getting ideas.

They've also just stopped unvaccinated people from using public transport and need very good reason for this, hence the alarming data they are suddenly releasing.

The booster jab isn't going down well over there either, seems they question things more than us and won't blindly follow the government.

I wonder if anyone knows if anti-virals work against Covid if you are unlucky enough to catch it even if vaccinated. You just don’t hear of any treatment if you have it other than paracetamol. If it worsens ultimately you could end up on a ventilator.

I don’t really understand any of it. Central London has had relatively few cases, compared to the rest of the Uk, for at least 6 months now. This is despite huge numbers of people, little mask wearing and relatively low vaccination rates. I’m guessing we have more natural immunity. It is just starting to creep up again now.

@Malibuismysecrethome

I wonder if anyone knows if anti-virals work against Covid if you are unlucky enough to catch it even if vaccinated. You just don’t hear of any treatment if you have it other than paracetamol. If it worsens ultimately you could end up on a ventilator.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/uk-is-first-to-approve-oral-antiviral-pill-molnupiravir-to-treat-covid

Yes, there is a new antiviral

There is also an antibody treatment and also dexamethasone

@sjxoxo How does France feel about Austria, the Netherlands, Ireland, Greece and Denmark all of which have higher case rates than the U.K.?!

scaevola thank you

The reason the hospitals are full is the care recruitment crisis. We can't discharge patients who are medically well enough to go home but have care needs. It was dire even before politicians decided to get rid of them if they didn't have the covid vaccine. Turns out not enough care staff is far more dangerous than has been explained to people as it means there's no beds.

Flu deaths aren't even a blip this year and we'd never worry about them. It's excess deaths that are important. I think again we've been terrible at discussing the reasons for premature deaths in the past. Poverty is a huge indicator of life expectancy and our response to covid has created a poorer population of elderly people who are suffering the effects of isolation and lack of go appointments etc.

Wearing a mask is useless compared to actually dealing with an unhappy, unhealthy population and the issues we are seeing due to restrictions will go on for decades. Cases are far more complex and need intervention for longer. Physical health needs are worsened by delays.

But more restrictions will just create a more hideous picture to deal. We just have to hold on tight, trust the vaccine works and consider the whole picture.

[quote BunsyGirl]@sjxoxo How does France feel about Austria, the Netherlands, Ireland, Greece and Denmark all of which have higher case rates than the U.K.?![/quote]
The whole my relative in U.K. says re masks etc is a bit outdated given the numbers in countries who do

@GiveMeNovocain

The reason the hospitals are full is the care recruitment crisis. We can't discharge patients who are medically well enough to go home but have care needs. It was dire even before politicians decided to get rid of them if they didn't have the covid vaccine. Turns out not enough care staff is far more dangerous than has been explained to people as it means there's no beds.

Flu deaths aren't even a blip this year and we'd never worry about them. It's excess deaths that are important. I think again we've been terrible at discussing the reasons for premature deaths in the past. Poverty is a huge indicator of life expectancy and our response to covid has created a poorer population of elderly people who are suffering the effects of isolation and lack of go appointments etc.

Wearing a mask is useless compared to actually dealing with an unhappy, unhealthy population and the issues we are seeing due to restrictions will go on for decades. Cases are far more complex and need intervention for longer. Physical health needs are worsened by delays.

But more restrictions will just create a more hideous picture to deal. We just have to hold on tight, trust the vaccine works and consider the whole picture.

Good post, we’ve created where we are through restrictions etc. whilst they may have been needed (people will debate on this) doing more of it will make it worse.

@GiveMeNovocain

The reason the hospitals are full is the care recruitment crisis. We can't discharge patients who are medically well enough to go home but have care needs. It was dire even before politicians decided to get rid of them if they didn't have the covid vaccine. Turns out not enough care staff is far more dangerous than has been explained to people as it means there's no beds.

Flu deaths aren't even a blip this year and we'd never worry about them. It's excess deaths that are important. I think again we've been terrible at discussing the reasons for premature deaths in the past. Poverty is a huge indicator of life expectancy and our response to covid has created a poorer population of elderly people who are suffering the effects of isolation and lack of go appointments etc.

Wearing a mask is useless compared to actually dealing with an unhappy, unhealthy population and the issues we are seeing due to restrictions will go on for decades. Cases are far more complex and need intervention for longer. Physical health needs are worsened by delays.

But more restrictions will just create a more hideous picture to deal. We just have to hold on tight, trust the vaccine works and consider the whole picture.

Agree with every word here.

agree that uk are downplaying

although the NHS is under immense strain

the NHS are also on catch up,
determined to catch up on cases and get through the waiting lists